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Subject: anyone up for brainstorming new jinteki kill combos rss

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Jonny G
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I was hoping we can all start brainstorming some ideas to make some kill combos for jinteki. I think with the new cards in honor and profit this gives us the best options to compete with wayland tag and bag.

the biggest card that gives us kill potential is house of knives



this combos with several ice effects to help flatline the runner. first being



and



When house of knives is scored it allows you to set this combo up. place inazuma goes above Komainu and it empties their hand, then House of knives trigger to finish off the runner. If the icebreakers arrive then you have a corporate troubleshooter in remote to boost inazuma. The biggest downside is it does depend on the runner going on a particular server. if they avoid it it fails and if they have more money then you it also fails to overpower corporate troubleshooter.

Second method is using chairman Hiro and Tori Hanzo



What I like about this combo is that it does not depend as much on the runners mistakes as the above example does. If you are able to deal enough brain damage using either Tori Hanzo, Cerbral Overwritter, or Cerebral cast (helps get the first one off at lease after two or three they will always take the tag). then rezing chairman Hiro and using Neural EMP to finish them off.

Can anyone else see other potential combos? can anyone see what kind of decks we can make?
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Rich K
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I've been brainstorming a Nisei Division deck that uses Mental Health Clinic to give the runner a false sense of security and invite them to draw up. Then, try and get them to run on Psychic Field or Komainu to get rid of their hand. If they can bypass Komainu with a sentry breaker, then fortify it with Inazuma.

Meanwhile, use Cerebral Cast with the ability to punish tags through Closed Accounts or Scorched Earth. The runner may decide to take brain damage - why not? They've already drawn up thanks to Mental Health Clinic. At some point later in the game, you can trash the Mental Health Clinics and leave the runner with their accrued brain damage. The deck still needs something that can kill the runner at that point, though.
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Scott
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Komainu might combo well with Mental Health Clinic, as the more cards they have in hand the more subroutines they have to break.
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Marcel Heymuth
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Cool thing is, that if I understand correctly,
Inazuma + Komainu still dies to a Parasite+Datasucker/Wyrm/Grimoire, right? You don't break subroutines, you break ICE. Yay.
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Arrrrr!
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Does Komainu+Hokusai Grid result in an instant kill?
 
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rodentfield wrote:
Does Komainu+Hokusai Grid result in an instant kill?


Presumably they will jack out?
 
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wanderingmystic
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Komainu was made to flatline, but it also doubles as a great tax-the-runner ice.
Personally, I think Mushin no Shin has potential. If you can play it right, it becomes a great way to score agendas, but can also be swapped to play ronins/junebugs with free advancements. Nice quick damage! If the runner hits a 3 advance junebug, that's game unless they have some way to mitigate the damage (ie Deus Ex) or have overdrawn before running.

Combine with PE for added pressure of damage when scoring. Combine with Tennin for extra advancement tokens, leaving more room to follow that Ronin up with multiple neurals.


Does anyone know if House of Knives can be activated after Komainu hits the runner, before they jack out?
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Michele Lupo
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DrTall wrote:
rodentfield wrote:
Does Komainu+Hokusai Grid result in an instant kill?


Presumably they will jack out?


If Hokusai is unrezzed and the runner decides to access then he has no timing window to jack out after the corp rezzes it.
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Pedraum
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wanderingmystic wrote:
Does anyone know if House of Knives can be activated after Komainu hits the runner, before they jack out?


Looks like it. It gains the subroutines at 3.0 of the timing structure & paid ability window is 3.1. If the runner doesn't break, you hit them with 1 net damage. Then the subroutines fire, flatlining the runner.

This one has huge potential.
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wanderingmystic
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cardsbydizzle wrote:
wanderingmystic wrote:
Does anyone know if House of Knives can be activated after Komainu hits the runner, before they jack out?


Looks like it. It gains the subroutines at 3.0 of the timing structure & paid ability window is 3.1. If the runner doesn't break, you hit them with 1 net damage. Then the subroutines fire, flatlining the runner.

This one has huge potential.


Nice! I didn't see that one. Had assumed if you hit the runner for the damage early, Komainu would just get one less sub. That is game changing right there. This basically means if the runner hits Komainu without a breaker and you have scored Knives, game.
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Andrew Keddie
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wanderingmystic wrote:
cardsbydizzle wrote:
wanderingmystic wrote:
Does anyone know if House of Knives can be activated after Komainu hits the runner, before they jack out?


Looks like it. It gains the subroutines at 3.0 of the timing structure & paid ability window is 3.1. If the runner doesn't break, you hit them with 1 net damage. Then the subroutines fire, flatlining the runner.

This one has huge potential.


Nice! I didn't see that one. Had assumed if you hit the runner for the damage early, Komainu would just get one less sub. That is game changing right there. This basically means if the runner hits Komainu without a breaker and you have scored Knives, game.


Wow. Just wow.

EDIT: Be prepared to have the timing structure printed out if you intend to use this one people. You are correct, but people WILL argue that you're not.
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Wolf88 wrote:
DrTall wrote:
rodentfield wrote:
Does Komainu+Hokusai Grid result in an instant kill?


Presumably they will jack out?


If Hokusai is unrezzed and the runner decides to access then he has no timing window to jack out after the corp rezzes it.


I mean if Komainu takes you down to 0 cards you are probably going to jack out rather than let the run be successful.
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Sean Trundle
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CommissarFeesh wrote:
wanderingmystic wrote:
cardsbydizzle wrote:
wanderingmystic wrote:
Does anyone know if House of Knives can be activated after Komainu hits the runner, before they jack out?


Looks like it. It gains the subroutines at 3.0 of the timing structure & paid ability window is 3.1. If the runner doesn't break, you hit them with 1 net damage. Then the subroutines fire, flatlining the runner.

This one has huge potential.


Nice! I didn't see that one. Had assumed if you hit the runner for the damage early, Komainu would just get one less sub. That is game changing right there. This basically means if the runner hits Komainu without a breaker and you have scored Knives, game.


Wow. Just wow.

EDIT: Be prepared to have the timing structure printed out if you intend to use this one people. You are correct, but people WILL argue that you're not.


Either way, isn't there another window for paid abilities (4.1 or 2.1, depending if there's any more ice) before they can choose to jack out?
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Patrick Jamet
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You may also use House of Knives at 2.1 (when approching the next piece of ice) or 4.1 (before accessing the server), the runner cannot decide to jackout before 2.2 or 4.2.

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Jonny G
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Ingbert wrote:
Cool thing is, that if I understand correctly,
Inazuma + Komainu still dies to a Parasite+Datasucker/Wyrm/Grimoire, right? You don't break subroutines, you break ICE. Yay.


Pretty much any ice dies to data sucker and parasite so I'm not sure it's a fair comparison. It is not an ice you can expect will stay for more then one or two runs
 
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Captain Frisk
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On the subject of combos, there is a nice 1 influence Hb card that works really well at ensuring that komainu does what it needs to do. He seems to have been forgotten about because weyland has fallen out of favor.
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Ken Dilloo
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Captain_Frisk wrote:
On the subject of combos, there is a nice 1 influence Hb card that works really well at ensuring that komainu does what it needs to do. He seems to have been forgotten about because weyland has fallen out of favor.


.....and he's going to be even cooler with a new look.
 
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Jonny G
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Captain_Frisk wrote:
On the subject of combos, there is a nice 1 influence Hb card that works really well at ensuring that komainu does what it needs to do. He seems to have been forgotten about because weyland has fallen out of favor.


I mentioned that earlier im my main post that corporate troubleshooter on inazuma is insane for getting komainu to fire off. So far here is a rough Neisi deck I have worked on focusing on emptying the hand.

Nisei Division 1 49 cards

Agendas
House of Knives 3
Medical Breakthrough 3
Philotic Entanglement 1
The Future Perfect 2
Braintrust 2


Ice
Inazuma 2
Komainu 3
Shinobi 2
Hive 3
Snowflake 3
Quandry 2

Upgrades
Corporate Troubleshooter 3
Caprice Nisei 2

Operations
Neural EMP 3
Cerebral Cast 2
Closed Accounts 1
Medical Research Fundraiser 3
Mushin No Shin 2

Assets
Snare! 2
Zaibatsu Loyalty 2
Psychic Field 3
Shi.Kyū 2
Mental health facility 3

This decks main strategy is to score house of knives ASAP using caprise. I then focus on setting up a kill server with neural EMP if I can.
This is very rough and only wins at this point because no one expects the death through ice concept yet.

This needs a lot of polishing before I can consider this competitive. But I feel its a start.

 
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Jonny G
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I have also been toying with the idea of using brain damage to get in a kill. I can start with cerbral casts then hit them with tori honzo using house of knives to inflict the brain damage. Then I would use chairman hiro after they have two or three brain damage to get them down to 1 or 2 hand size then EMP them to death. What I like about this is it does not matter how many agendas I score as long as I get house of knives. This would allow me to use hive
 
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Erin OConnor
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In addition to the chairman I think that Gyri Labyrinth guarding R&D would be exceedingly deadly.

http://netrunnerdb.com/en/card/04110

Together that leaves the runner with a hand size of 1.
They trip over any ambushes (Snare! = Death) or (Shock + Neural EMP = death.) or (Fetal AI = death.) That's a whole lot of potential death.


Even with just the chairman out a (Snare! + Neural EMP = death) or a (fetal AI + Neural EMP x2 = death)

Edit:
Forgot about Hokusai Grid. Toss that on your R&D for even more pain.
 
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Echo2Omega wrote:
Together that leaves the runner with a hand size of 1.
They trip over any ambushes (Snare! = Death) or (Shock + Neural EMP = death.) or (Fetal AI = death.) That's a whole lot of potential death.


Note that the hand size limit isn't enforced until the end of the Runner's turn. So if you start with 5 cards and hit 2 Gyri Labyrinths followed by a Snare!, you don't flatline.
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Ryan Angell
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gawbo005 wrote:
Captain_Frisk wrote:
On the subject of combos, there is a nice 1 influence Hb card that works really well at ensuring that komainu does what it needs to do. He seems to have been forgotten about because weyland has fallen out of favor.


I mentioned that earlier im my main post that corporate troubleshooter on inazuma is insane for getting komainu to fire off. So far here is a rough Neisi deck I have worked on focusing on emptying the hand.

Nisei Division 1 49 cards

Agendas
House of Knives 3
Medical Breakthrough 3
Philotic Entanglement 1
The Future Perfect 2
Braintrust 2


Ice
Inazuma 2
Komainu 3
Shinobi 2
Hive 3
Snowflake 3
Quandry 2

Upgrades
Corporate Troubleshooter 3
Caprice Nisei 2

Operations
Neural EMP 3
Cerebral Cast 2
Closed Accounts 1
Medical Research Fundraiser 3
Mushin No Shin 2

Assets
Snare! 2
Zaibatsu Loyalty 2
Psychic Field 3
Shi.Kyū 2
Mental health facility 3

This decks main strategy is to score house of knives ASAP using caprise. I then focus on setting up a kill server with neural EMP if I can.
This is very rough and only wins at this point because no one expects the death through ice concept yet.

This needs a lot of polishing before I can consider this competitive. But I feel its a start.



troubleshooter unfortunately takes a lot more than 3 medical fundraisers to use. hell in weyland i found games where i couldnt use troubleshooter unless i managed to stick a melange for a few turns.

one cute thing ive seen people do with tennin is mushin no shin -> grndl refinery. if the runner doesnt get the refinery you have 16-20+ credits the next turn which depending on your strategy could be enough for most of the game.
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g k
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Isn't handsize reduction antisynergystic with Komainu and House of Knives? What you want more than anything else is to score the knives. What you want is 0 advancement trap:

Psychic Field!

cjpeTrapJinteki (49 cards)

Jinteki: Personal Evolution

Agenda (13)
3 Braintrust
1 Clone Retirement
3 Fetal AI
2 Gila Hands Arcology
3 House of Knives
1 Philotic Entanglement

Asset (12)
3 Jackson Howard •••
3 PAD Campaign
3 Psychic Field
1 Shock!
2 Snare!

Upgrade (2)
2 Hokusai Grid

Operation (16)
2 Accelerated Diagnostics ••
1 Archived Memories ••
1 Biotic Labor ••••
2 Celebrity Gift
1 Fast Track
3 Hedge Fund
1 Interns
3 Neural EMP
2 Power Shutdown ••••

Code Gate (1)
1 Yagura

Sentry (5)
3 Komainu
2 Tsurugi

Built with http://netrunner.meteor.com/

Now, this deck is currently terrible. There aren't nearly enough pieces of ice to defend against account siphon, but against other runner decks, it's been doing alright.

-Personal Evolution allows a Komainu to make any agenda potentially lethal if they don't jack out. A decent way to defend house of knives.

-House of Knives can't flatline someone who runs into a Psychic Field, though it can prevent them from running something else afterwards.

-I wanted to include a bionic labor to make a Philotic Entanglement out of hand a constant threat, so I wound up adding the accelerated diagnostics combo to make x4 neural EMP a threat after they hit something, but I'm not so sure it's worth the influence or card slots. It's hard to hardcast EMP when you draw them.

-This deck probably wants more ice (cheap ice) and maybe Chum.

-Hokusai is probably pointless. If I take out the combo, Capise + RSVP is probably a good approach, esp with 3 Fetals. It'll also guarantee a Psychic Field hit. A Faerie will still break a Komainu with an RSVP in front of it, but most every other breaker will struggle.


***
EDIT - a more conventional take:
cjpeTrapJinteki v1.1 (49 cards)

Jinteki: Personal Evolution

Agenda (13)
3 Braintrust
3 Clone Retirement
3 Fetal AI
3 House of Knives
1 Philotic Entanglement

Asset (11)
3 Jackson Howard •••
3 PAD Campaign
2 Psychic Field
1 Shock!
2 Snare!

Upgrade (2)
2 Caprice Nisei

Operation (7)
1 Biotic Labor ••••
2 Celebrity Gift
1 Fast Track
3 Hedge Fund

Barrier (5)
3 Himitsu-Bako
2 Wall of Thorns

Code Gate (5)
2 Enigma
2 RSVP ••••
1 Tollbooth ••

Sentry (6)
1 Archer ••
3 Komainu
2 Tsurugi

Built with http://netrunner.meteor.com/
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Allan Clements
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If you can do 4 brain damage, and rez the Chairman just before the end of the runners turn, they have a negative hand size and lose the game. I have been trying that, but only managed to get 3 brain damage so far (Hokusai grid and Tori hanzo is pretty much guaranteed brain damage)

Had some fun games where there is a Tori Hanzo + face down NAPD in a server. They access Tori first and trash it because they don't want brain damage from stealing the agenda (I am PE) and then they don't have enough credits for stealing NAPD =)

Reliably landing brain damage is still pretty challenging, or very expensive. Fun to try it though.
 
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Jonny G
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I also thought of another combo with cell portal.

Requires three ice. Whirlpool, Komainu, and cell portal. The runner hits it the first time but forced to run it again because of cell portal. Now the first set have not gone away since the run is not over and if they have an empty hand already it is a flat line. if the runner is rich then even better because it is extremely taxing ice.
 
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