Dante Tulos
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I have always used the No Symp variant, so when the Mutineer from Daybreak is set to replace it I find myself wondering.... is it better or should I be looking to avoid that card too?
 
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Pasi Ojala
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Try it yourself. Also try the Cylon Leader Motives. We find them challenging and thus fun.

Pros:
- Your loyalty does no flip because of getting a Mutineer card.
- If no-one selects Cylon Leader (in e.g. 4-player games), you automatically fall back to using Mutineer.

Cons:
- Receiving Mutineer is random, and you are handicapped by being required to play those Mutiny cards you'll get if you resolve a jump symbol or risk going to the Brig. But some of the Mutiny card effects are situationally big helps, although with costs (sometimes the cost is cheap).
- Mutineer may not appear until Sleeper, so sometimes have little effect.
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Dante Tulos
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Sounds reasonable, except for the poor soul who has to be the Mutineer and may be in and out of the brig every 5minutes. I'll give it a go, having read the rules it gives the impression that it's not a feature can be taken out anyway.
 
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Ian Madsen
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My preference: Mutineer > No Sympathizer > Sympathizer > Sympathetic Cylon
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Pasi Ojala
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You can't take the Mutiny cards themselves out, they are a core mechanic with the Daybreak Treachery, but you can choose either Cylon Leader or Mutineer for the applicable player counts.

We even played a 5-player game or two with both Cylon Leader and Mutineer. In the first game with Daybreak I was the New/Alternate Zarek who became Mutineer at the beginning of the game, so is was fairly thematic too.

Our (read: my) Preference: Cylon Leader with Motives > Mutineer > randomized cylon > Cylon Leader with Agendas. Well, except we never get beyond Mutineer now.

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Mark L
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The Mutineer is just... boring. And it's pro-human. (Think about it: if the Mutineer just spends the entire game in the Brig handing out XOs, it's still better for humans than 3v2.)

I'd go with CL Motives, preferably with small tweaks to the system. Otherwise I'd go No-Symp.
 
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My biggest gripe with the Mutr. is that for the most part, my groups keep forgetting to enforce the drawing of an Mcard by the Mutr. on his turn when his crisis has a jump icon (with the next biggest offender is probably Cally's weakness). Really a major thing to be forgetting.

I walked in on a game towards the end at 1 jump icon away from auto-jump, 8-distance, going to Earth. For one turn, I reminded the Mutr. about this rule, and there was a bit of silence, following by a surprised afterthought that they've forgotten to enforce this rule ever since the Mutr. came out at the start of the game shake Would've made some difference, as the Mutr. never played one single Mcard due to that.



a1bert wrote:
Try it yourself. Also try the Cylon Leader Motives. We find them challenging and thus fun.
They're not without faults either, but, one topic at a time

a1bert wrote:
Pros:
- Your loyalty does no flip because of getting a Mutineer card.
Well, you draw a new Loyalty card if you got the Mutr. card fresh off the Loyalty deck, so that statement alone isn't true. However, in a case where all of the cylon cards are already out, it won't glob you into some half-cylon/half-human glob, so I digress.

a1bert wrote:
- If no-one selects Cylon Leader (in e.g. 4-player games), you automatically fall back to using Mutineer.
Or... you could always try the no-symp

a1bert wrote:
Cons:
- Mutineer may not appear until Sleeper, so sometimes have little effect.
The conflict is this isn't necessarily such negligible, as someone who had titles now loses them all. However, some show disdain for this sort of thing as it's akin to the sympathetic cylon sympathizer having changes forced upon him. In this case, the Mutr. lost titles through no fault of his own.
 
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Kwijiboe
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ackmondual wrote:
My biggest gripe with the Mutr. is that for the most part, my groups keep forgetting to enforce the drawing of an Mcard by the Mutr. on his turn when his crisis has a jump icon (with the next biggest offender is probably Cally's weakness). Really a major thing to be forgetting.

I walked in on a game towards the end at 1 jump icon away from auto-jump, 8-distance, going to Earth. For one turn, I reminded the Mutr. about this rule, and there was a bit of silence, following by a surprised afterthought that they've forgotten to enforce this rule ever since the Mutr. came out at the start of the game shake Would've made some difference, as the Mutr. never played one single Mcard due to that.


Hah, seen that happen plenty. My solution is to put the current player token (that no one seems to use) on top of the Mutineer's character's skillset. So, when they look down to see what skill cards they draw: the token is there reminding them to check for jump prep icon.

Once crisis card is revealed, hand off mutineer card--but resolve the "go to brig, discard down to 2 Mutr. cards after the crisis is resolved.

 
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Kwijiboe wrote:
ackmondual wrote:
My biggest gripe with the Mutr. is that for the most part, my groups keep forgetting to enforce the drawing of an Mcard by the Mutr. on his turn when his crisis has a jump icon (with the next biggest offender is probably Cally's weakness). Really a major thing to be forgetting.

I walked in on a game towards the end at 1 jump icon away from auto-jump, 8-distance, going to Earth. For one turn, I reminded the Mutr. about this rule, and there was a bit of silence, following by a surprised afterthought that they've forgotten to enforce this rule ever since the Mutr. came out at the start of the game shake Would've made some difference, as the Mutr. never played one single Mcard due to that.


Hah, seen that happen plenty. My solution is to put the current player token (that no one seems to use) on top of the Mutineer's character's skillset. So, when they look down to see what skill cards they draw: the token is there reminding them to check for jump prep icon.
I already use it on top of the crisis deck for Baltar's and Roslin's specials, and I put it the 2nd one from the top for Boomer's Recon. Otherwise, it gets used as a Sickbay reminder. Hopefully, those characters won't be the Mutr. either then
 
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Just finished a PBF - 6 player with a mutineer, and it barely inconvenienced us at all.
Mutineer is definitely pro-human.

A cylon leader is probably more fun to play with. As well as the paranoia about who the cylons are, players will also be looking to the cylon leader and worrying about whos side they are really on.


 
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Starfox4 wrote:
Just finished a PBF - 6 player with a mutineer, and it barely inconvenienced us at all.
Mutineer is definitely pro-human.

A cylon leader is probably more fun to play with. As well as the paranoia about who the cylons are, players will also be looking to the cylon leader and worrying about whos side they are really on.
One roll of the dice with CL is if they get 2 and 2 Motives, they could win with any side, and have been in a position to do so. When that occurs, you can just see all the cares melt away from that player.
 
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ackmondual wrote:
One roll of the dice with CL is if they get 2 and 2 Motives, they could win with any side, and have been in a position to do so. When that occurs, you can just see all the cares melt away from that player.

You still have to be able to reveal 3 Motives, whichever side wins.

One game: to win with both sides, at the end of the game have Morale between 3 and 5, Population between 4 and 6 (inclusive). It takes a lot of careful playing to keep the resources going down, but not too quickly. In the end, Population dropped to 3, so winning with Cylons was no longer an option and I helped humans to victory.

Had Morale dropped below 3 during the final push, I would not have been able to win, although I had completed both of the human-allegience Motives.

So, winning with either side might not be that easy either...
 
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a1bert wrote:
ackmondual wrote:
One roll of the dice with CL is if they get 2 and 2 Motives, they could win with any side, and have been in a position to do so. When that occurs, you can just see all the cares melt away from that player.

You still have to be able to reveal 3 Motives, whichever side wins.

One game: to win with both sides, at the end of the game have Morale between 3 and 5, Population between 4 and 6 (inclusive). It takes a lot of careful playing to keep the resources going down, but not too quickly. In the end, Population dropped to 3, so winning with Cylons was no longer an option and I helped humans to victory.

Had Morale dropped below 3 during the final push, I would not have been able to win, although I had completed both of the human-allegience Motives.

So, winning with either side might not be that easy either...
I will admit this is anecdotal, but I've already seen 2 games where the CL was covered either way... all 3 of his motives were "revealable", with one revealed during the game.
 
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