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Subject: [DECK] MI5 - Who is the next Bond? rss

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Lynk Fox
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Based off what I was tooling around in the Ian Central Intelligence thread, Ive put together this deck. the problem I'm finding is... is Ian really the right Identity for this idea?

MI5 (Staring Ian Stirling as JAMES BOND)

Iain Stirling: Retired Spook (Honor and Profit)

Event (17)
3x Calling in Favors (Honor and Profit)
2x Early Bird (Honor and Profit)
3x Hostage (Opening Moves)
2x Notoriety (Trace Amount) ••
2x Quest Completed (Fear and Loathing) ••••
2x Special Order (Core Set)
3x Sure Gamble (Core Set)

Hardware (6)
2x Doppelgänger (A Study in Static)
2x R&D Interface (Future Proof) ••••
2x Window (Honor and Profit)

Resource (14)
1x Compromised Employee (Trace Amount)
2x Crash Space (Core Set)
1x Data Dealer (Core Set)
2x Fall Guy (Double Time)
2x Kati Jones (Humanity's Shadow)
2x Mr. Li (Future Proof)
2x Same Old Thing (Creation and Control)
2x Tri-maf Contact (Honor and Profit)

Icebreaker (7)
2x Alias (Honor and Profit)
2x Breach (Honor and Profit)
1x Crypsis (Core Set)
2x Passport (Honor and Profit)

Program (1)
1x Sneakdoor Beta (Core Set)

10 influence spent (max 10)
45 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Honor and Profit

Deck built on NetrunnerDB.



That 10 inf HURTS. Hurts so much!

I'm just switched Window into my deck tonight, after using Mr Li to draw the breaker I needed and the QC I wanted to access the agenda waiting to be scored. Havin to pick only one I went for the breaker but man window ould have been nice. With doppleganger out you can Mr Li first (or Trimaf, or data dealer, or Kati) and still get a Notoriety or a Quest Completed done that turn, which is gorgeous. If you have the time you can Early Bird and Doppleganger (3 runs, 1 click) Notoriety, then Same Ol thing a QC

I'm still not sure about that Window - is it going to be worth the 2 card slots? I went with Li over Masanori because I wanted a card draw effect for no influence, and did not want to risk the tags in such a resource heavy deck.

Now - the real meat of this post:

I have considered the following for all other identities:

If I switched to another Identity I would drop both -2 Window, -1 Crypsis, +1 Knight, +1 Notoriety, +1 Quest Completed

Andromeda: Pro: Consistency. Con - Everyone does it. That may not be so bad. Possibly lest Econ? But in the 3 games Ive played with the above his ability hasn't been too much econ. With 9 cards the ability to get Tri-Maf or Kati out quick either in hand or with Hostage would be massively increased.

Gabe: Could his HQ perk replace Ian for better inf value?

Express: I could fit a second Knight increasing my likelhood of drawing it, or a 3rd RD Interface - all good things. But his identity would otherwise be blank, as I am only running 2 Run Events (Early Bird).

Silhouette: The expose ability would combo very well with using Quest Completed to access remotes. It would keep me from wasting a QC on something like a melange or an adonis or something I don't care to trash. However, I would not be able to take advantage of her 40 card deck size - I really don't think i could cut this down to 40. I don't even know where to begin to do so. I ... guess -1 Special order, -1 Calling in Favor, -1 Compromised Employee, -1 Same Ol Thing, -1 Sure Gamble? I have no idea.


Currently I am leaning toward Silhouette and just sticking with 45 cards - It works (so far, needs a lot more testing) at 45 just fine, and the 2 inf and the Expose would combo so very nicely with what I want to happen, or Andromeda for the power of consistency with her opening draw on getting the Connections I want in play quickly (Kati or Tri Maf, Data Dealer, Crash Space, Mr Li being the primary things I'm looking out for early.


Thoughts?
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Joe Romero
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Whittier
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Kudos for charging in and making a Stirling deck. It's a curious identity that is sorely missing his five extra influence. An immediate comparison can be made to Kit, as both of these identities are in the same influence boat, and both of them have made that sacrifice to enable a style of play that is off the beaten path for their respective faction. (Kit enables some real, terrifying aggression, and Stirling offers... something yet to be seen.)

Honor and Profit is still in it's infancy, and I'm a fool, but I think Stirling's ability is actually something that really needs to be built around. If you use classic criminal aggression and pick up agendas, you are actively turning your own ID off. In a vaccuum, Stirling needs to be compared to Gabe, as you can generate those 2 credits without a click, with the downside of needing to be in a losing position. I am by no means a great, or even good netrunner player, but I am of the firm belief that Stirling needs to buck certain Criminal trends in order to shine.

I love the doppelganger, notoriety, quest completed core here, and I think you're correct in saying that silhouette will be the prime ID choice here. I think you can actually try cutting the windows first. Until Will o' the Wisp begins ravaging us, you can mitigate the downsides of Mr. Li by special ordering to shake up your stack order again.

As a final note, coming from someone else experimenting with the central breakers, I'd think very carefully about including them, especially Alias. You have Ninja, and Femme in faction as long term investments, and I think Ninja is very comparable, especially since you lose that debilitating restriction.

I like Breach and Passport a lot more, as they are the prime breakers of the faction, efficiency wise, but if you move away from stirling, consider using the extra influence towards breakers with less harsh restrictions. (Corroder and Zu respectfully.)

Here's hoping that was some help. Good luck with your build!
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Lynk Fox
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Very good points. I was so locked into the Centrals+Notoriety+Quest Completed Idea that I didn't think to possibly use the extra Inf for better breakers, expanding the possibility of the deck.


About using Ian ability and building around it: Agreed entirely. Like Kit where you have to take charge about Code Gate prevalence, Ian will require a way of thinking that is different. I am sort of making use of that here - central only breakers are going to be slower to get an agenda without pure luck, and Data Dealer means if i feel like its a good idea I can just snag that agenda away for money and turn Ian back on.

I'm going to keep playing with Ian right now as this is (though I may switch to Ninja at the least) just to get more games with this as it is. With only a very small amount of games under my belt I don't have any idea what is going on. I still look at my opening and and shrug - No idea if this is what I want yet or not.

But I will always be looking at the game and comparing it to Silhouette in my head - she'll be a close second choice probably! And I think I'd still end up running her as a 42 or 43 or so card deck rather than the straight 40.

Thanks for the advice!
 
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Jonathan Trew
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Mmm, that's a nice deck lynkfox and like the one in the central intelligence thread it's really quite a curveball for criminal.
I totally agree that Iain is a good thing for the game even if he isn't tournament material.
Bromero wrote:
It's a curious identity that is sorely missing his five extra influence. An immediate comparison can be made to Kit, as both of these identities are in the same influence boat, and both of them have made that sacrifice to enable a style of play that is off the beaten path for their respective faction.

From the Iain deck I've tried to make I agree and think that the comparison to Kit is definitely valid as both Identities not only open the deck design space of their factions but also affect the corp's game plan directly. However I feel that the influence hit that Iain takes is somewhat harder than Kit's as I personally see Kit's ability as stronger than Iain's, you could argue that the strength of the criminal faction in general and the link that Iain gets evens the balance, but I think that an influence value of 12 (maybe even 13?) would have been better.

Regarding your question of whether Iain is right for this deck or not, I think I have to agree with your doubts and say that Gabe or Silhouette are better choices:
Gabe - will net you 3 credits on any turns you notoriety/QC instead of Iain's 2 though there will be turns that you don't run that you would gain creds from Iain so the economy benefit is likley going to even out (if you went Gabe, maybe add security testing in somewhere? heck, do that anyway and gain 2 more creds on notoriety/QC runs on Archives?) so the influence would be the selling point.
Silhouette - The bonuses you mention about avoiding wasting QCs is definitely worth it. You have to question what economic impact this will have though.
That said, I can agree with the points you make about Iain's ability playing into this strategy (you can let them get to 5 points - or 6 if you live dangerously like bond - to get the most of the ID and then just QC to deny them the final point, not best tourney play but definitely fun) and he's certainly not a bad choice for this deck.

The Ninja/Alias decision is one I will certainly explore in my Iain deck as well, but some maths to put things in perspective (my go to Ono-Sendai to get more): vs Archer, Alias is 2 creds/run plus 1 cred install cheaper than Ninja - and how likely is it that you'll hit Archer covering a central? And if it is there how likely are they going to be to forfeit an agenda in order to rez it considering that will likely deny you 2 creds/turn?
I may suggest one of each as this allows you to install one and then swap over to the other if you need to become more efficient, plus if you install alias first then installing Ninja opens options in case the corp has gotten wise to your reliance on breaking centrals.


Other than that If you're having success with the deck, don't change it too much.
 
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Andrew Keddie
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Alias vs. Ninja: (all data from sneakdoor.com)

Alias is 3 credits to install compared to Ninja's 4.

Alias on average breaks for 4.12 credits. Ninja breaks on average for 4.94 making Alias actually more efficient for all sentries. However, this doesn't account for which sentries are more commonly played (or need to be broken). Some of the math is also a little weird on Sneakdoor (for example, you don't need to pump either against Woodcutter until it has subroutines, but Sneakdoor still factors to cost to match strength).

Now, that said: Alias breaks almost ALL sentries for less than ninja does AND saves a credit on install - but Ninja can throw down on remotes, which Alias can't. If you aren't going to run remotes often, Alias is probably your best choice.

Similarly, the influence-conscious Criminal who doesn't care for remotes is going to be very happy with Breach over Aurora, and Passport over Peacock. I think that these central-only breakers have been very well-costed when balanced against the other in-faction tools.
 
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Lynk Fox
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Thanks for those stats Commissar!

Ive made the following changes - Security testing is proving to be REALLY nice, and is a great soft counter to Jinteki - seriously, you Celeb'd and showed me you have 2 snares in hand? Yeah i wont access just give me my money, and then Ill run RD and Archives (possibly not accessing either) and get my QC or Notoriety for scoring anyways.

Central Intelligence (with Ian)

Iain Stirling: Retired Spook (Honor and Profit)

Event (17)
3x Calling in Favors (Honor and Profit)
2x Early Bird (Honor and Profit)
3x Hostage (Opening Moves)
2x Notoriety (Trace Amount) ••
2x Quest Completed (Fear and Loathing) ••••
2x Special Order (Core Set)
3x Sure Gamble (Core Set)

Hardware (5)
3x Doppelgänger (A Study in Static)
2x R&D Interface (Future Proof) ••••

Resource (16)
2x Crash Space (Core Set)
2x Data Dealer (Core Set)
2x Fall Guy (Double Time)
2x Kati Jones (Humanity's Shadow)
2x Mr. Li (Future Proof)
2x Same Old Thing (Creation and Control)
2x Security Testing (Honor and Profit)
2x Tri-maf Contact (Honor and Profit)

Icebreaker (7)
1x Alias (Honor and Profit)
2x Breach (Honor and Profit)
1x Crypsis (Core Set)
1x Ninja (Core Set)
2x Passport (Honor and Profit)

Program (1)
1x Sneakdoor Beta (Core Set)

10 influence spent (max 10)
46 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Honor and Profit

Deck built on NetrunnerDB.


Still running with Ian for now, like him sometimes, but othertimes just dying for an expose or Gabes 2 creds. Will keep playing with Ian for now, but after a week or two will probably try out Sil or Gabe
 
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Lynk Fox
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Thought I would elaborate.


With only 2 of each breaker and the Special Ordres, it can take 3 or 4 turns to get set up. Thats ugly slow. Ian tends to go off because of that unless you hit early, or am against a CI or some other 7 points in one turn deck.

Gabe would still be a viable change - late game that can equal 6 creds with a doppleganger on HQ, assuming that you can get in cheap.

Funny how some things work. I was thinking Gah, Breach is so ugh to break eli, only it is the same as corroder. hah.

I have 1 Ninja in with the Alias, but I'm really thinking its not worth it. I can run on remotes with it, but... Crypsis can get in and if I have to run a remote I'm in serious trouble already. I'd rather Early Bird > Dopple into final run and Same Ol Thing Quest Completed instead.
 
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