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Subject: 2 Base Set 2 Regiment Army Builds? rss

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Rex Gator
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I have purchased two base sets. but have not had many opportunities to play. I am going to enter a tournament next weekend and I was wondering if anyone had recommendations as to good 2 regiment army lists that can be built with two base sets. I would also be interested in any comments on why you prefer the build or how you use it. many thanks
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Benjamin Bottorff
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My group doesn't do many two regiment games these days however the general concept that we've found most difficult to deal with is this one: (please don't mind my spelling I don't have my set with me)

############################################
Speed Asyrum(Bold 3)
Shield of Saphery(Devious 3)
Push (Steady 3)or Eager troops (Steady 3)
Rally (Slow 2)

Telkis or Alarille:
Sun Dragon
High Mage
2 of either militia archers or militia spearmen

Karl Franz:
Steam Tank
Knights Panther
Marienburg Swordsmanx2
############################################
Now, the major points of this build is that it focuses on what I'd describe as a few 'Wrecking Ball' units. The idea is to keep them unpinned and wearing down your enemy trying to get him to commit to an attack he cannot follow through on. Take the initiative counter if you can get it.
-The biggest 'Wrecking Ball' is the dragon. You'll want to do things like try to make it the last unit to move and pick off units on the flanks, then next turn breath more fire and try to fly back to your own lines just to rally it and try again. But even if your enemy still has a few disks left, if you empower it and give it a shield it becomes a nightmare to attack.
-The other other two units that'll be doing a lot of damage for you are the steam tanks and the knights. Try to keep them close to the high mage so that they resist everything. The tank does a slow advance and both provides ranged support and makes it dangerous for enemies to get too close to your line. The knights can counter attack, or charge to finish off wounded pieces or unpin your dragon.
-In order to facilitate these units threats, you'll want to advance karl franz and keep him just over long range away from your enemy lines (obviously their lines will probably come towards you but that's your staging ground). Once you have him in position with his two swordsman escorts somewhere in long range you'll be able to do things like have your dragon or knight dart forward and damage some target, unactivate them, and then run away before the enemy can pin them (and then rally them on the last card so they can run up and smash something again!)
-The trade off between Telkis and Alarielle is that Telkis can make it seriously painful to approach your lines or to even try, and Alarielle can patch up your dragon, tank, or Franz if needed. Being able to patch up the dragon alone would be awesome and justify her cost if it wasn't for the fact that odds are that if the dragon is wounded, it is pinned somewhere on your front line away from where you want her to be. Still, with the card that gives you mobility, either leader can win you the game.
-The spearmen vs archers choice is mostly one of preference. I normally go for the spearmen if I'm fighting anything but chaos and archers if I'm fighting chaos.


On the other hand, if you're looking for an army that is easy to play well, I'd consider one of these two:

###################################################
Speed Asyrum (Bold 3)
Shield of Saphery (Devious 3)
Arcane Assault (Steady 2)
Rally (Slow 2) or Winds of Morag-hai

Alarielle:
Bolt Thrower
High Mage
If you choose winds of morag-hai, then 3 militia archers, else a maiden guard and either another one or a Swordsman of Horeth.

Karl Franz:
VolleyGun
Knights Panther
Marienburg Swordsman
Huntsman
##############################################
Eager Troops (steady 3)
Intimidate (steady 3)
Fists of Mork (devious 3)
Inspire (bold 3)

Azhag:
River Troll
Stonefang shaman
Black Orcs
Orc Boyz

Grom:
River Troll
Orc Boyx (x2)
Boar Boyz
####################################################
These two armies are counter points to each other.

-The first one is an artillery based army that wants to force the enemy to charge them. They want to go second so that they've got a shot at Rain of Arrows and can make sure that there's no cave for the enemy to take cover in. You want to spread them out (I'd recommend taking your first turn to do so and get forces onto the field even if you don't get any artillery shots in).
-After that, Franz and rally can pump siege attack after siege attack at your enemies, Alarielle can stop your volley gun from exploding. Your enemy will find that they don't want to stay put and take the time to put together a nice co-ordinated attack because the longer they wait the more you can pelt them, but charging ahead is also a problem because that puts them in range of your other weapons, and even once they engage you have some things to take care of the wretches that reach you.
-The major weaknesses of this force are that it is a high activation force with not all that many activations in their cards, and that if your enemy does get close and you can't blast them off you'll soon be in a lot of trouble.

-The second army is the army that wants to make an unprepared charge and smash things (not that being unprepared is a virtue it's just that they aren’t as negatively affected by it as most). When running this army I'd actually view Azhag as being expendable but put some effort into keeping Grom alive (incase enemy has leader killing agenda).
-After getting into position for your attack (while doing so save your intimidate card) you can launch Azhag at your enemies front lines and try to pin enemies wherever they're clumped or juiciest, launching your fists of mork at clusters of vulnerable enemies. If you've empowered him, then between that and intimidate you can probably repel enough damage that he'll still be alive the turn after (and will have destroyed the disks under him and damaged the disks on top of him). At this point the rest of your army should be ready to engage right behind him (probably after he launches another fists of mork) and although he'll die he should have the opportunity to wreak a ton of havoc before he goes down. At that point, orcs just love the melee, pin as many enemies as you can (except enemies who it's stupid to do so) and reduce their ability to counter attack in any effective way.

I could recommend more if you have some sort of style you want to play but those should be enough to give you some ideas.
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Rex Gator
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This is exactly the kind of thing I was looking for. I tend to like defensive/control type builds in CCGs and hard to kill forces in tabletop tactical games. Any additional suggestions based on that?
 
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Benjamin Bottorff
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Then probably what you're really looking for, is the dwarves that haven't been released yet.

From the mainline set, you might want to consider the following force:

#########################################
Speed Asyrum (Bold 3)
Shield of Saphery (Devious 3)
Push (Steady 3)
---This last one is kind of up to you. Some decent options are:
Stall, Ralley, Winds of Moraghai, any empower card, Eager Troops, Arcane Strike. (I'd take Stall personally)

Tyrion:
Swordsmen of Horeth (or the light cavalry unit)
Militia Spearmen (x3)
High Mage

Telkis:
Sun Dragon
Maiden Guard (x2) (maybe use 3 militia archers if you grab winds of morag-hai.)
#########################################
This army can do a slow but steady advance using the spearmen to bait and to pin enemies. You have a decent amount of reliable ranged power with the maiden guard. Use your heavy hitters to deal with large threats and your small forces should have no problems dealing with your enemies small arms.
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Adolph Pernal
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If you're referring to the CoolStuff Maitland tournament, it has been moved to the 17th.

See you there!
 
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Benjamin Bottorff
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Although this strategy has been one of the best ones we've seen, it hasn't been undefeated or undefeatable by a long stretch. It's simply been the one that's been controlling the metagame. It has a few weak points that revolve around the fact that it actually has a very limited number of disks that are doing damage. If you can lock them down then for all the activation manipulation they have, they'll still lack teeth. Panthers and Dragons are both decently fast but you can only use Franz to pull one of them out on the card you send them in, and only one of them attacking is sustainable until you can pull a counter. Also, both of them rely on enemies being clumped up to deal max damage when they aren’t sticking around (and if they are sticking around then your enemy is risking much)

I wouldn't call it overpowered, but it's definitely very strong.
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Rex Gator
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Ohmani wrote:
If you're referring to the CoolStuff Maitland tournament, it has been moved to the 17th.

See you there!


That is the tournament I was talking about. Not sure if I am free on the 17th. Will have to check. Is there a regular group playing at CSI on weeknights?
 
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Benjamin Bottorff
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It's a pretty lucky set of rolls where a dragon can kill everyone he's pinning with his fire breath without hurting himself even if he has a shield. As I mentioned earlier, the amount of damage this tactic can deal is limited by spreading your disks out. It's particularly suicidal to clump up units together in such a way that a dragon can pin you and still be in range of Franz. Granted, there's pretty much no way to avoid taking damage and risking loss of disks but that sounds like carelessness on your opponents part to me.
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MechaBri Zilla
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archerparadox wrote:
Eager troops on the Dragon is scary. Last night I killed six disks with the Dragon in one turn. He pins three and shoots himself with a fireball (no damage thanks to Shield of Saphery). Use rally or Karl Franz. Repeat. He lived through the turn and ended up pinning azhag for the win. This was a two v two game


I'm curious. If you think this tactic is game breaking, and it seems like you hate it, then why are you're using it? Why not take the more challenging tact of trying to find ways to fight it? Or maybe ban it from your games?

You've just spent a lot of time on this forum complaining about this specific build, so I'm super surprised you're still using it.
 
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MechaBri Zilla
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archerparadox wrote:
This was the first time I have used it. I used it against the players that had been using it against me. Normally I play orcs. Let's not rush to judge and find somebody else to harsh on please.


Sorry. Just basing my comments on what you've been saying all along. I didn't think I was being harsh, just honestly surprised. Anyway, no hard feelings I hope.
 
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Adolph Pernal
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rexgator wrote:
Ohmani wrote:
If you're referring to the CoolStuff Maitland tournament, it has been moved to the 17th.

See you there!


That is the tournament I was talking about. Not sure if I am free on the 17th. Will have to check. Is there a regular group playing at CSI on weeknights?


Wednesdays from 3-midnight is board game night and there's usually a few pickup games of Diskwars happening. If you come, ask almost anyone playing boardgames for Adolph and I'll play a game or 3 with ya.

 
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MechaBri Zilla
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archerparadox wrote:
MechaBriZilla wrote:
archerparadox wrote:
This was the first time I have used it. I used it against the players that had been using it against me. Normally I play orcs. Let's not rush to judge and find somebody else to harsh on please.


Sorry. Just basing my comments on what you've been saying all along. I didn't think I was being harsh, just honestly surprised. Anyway, no hard feelings I hope.


No worries. Just hoping more disks will mean more strategies. I never meant to complain, there just aren't enough disks to make more than a couple of good armies. And thanks to FFG for expansions... Couldn't be any sooner. Same goes for a rule book 2.0


They have posted an faq. Don't know if you've seen it, but it might help with any questions your having with the rules.
 
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Asen Aleksandrov
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Here are some of my lists.

edit: I noticed your remarks about your tactical preferences. None of my suggestions are geared toward that style of play, I'm afraid.

-----------------------------------------------
35/35 Grom the Paunch
x2 Black Orcs
x1 Boar Boyz
x1 Wolf Riders

33/33 Azhag the Slaughterer
x2 Big Boss
x1 Boar Boyz
x1 Orc Boyz

This is my recommended Orc list. It relies on strictly mathematical performance with as little die-rolling as possible. Play it with Eager troops, Waaagh!, Lure and either Inspire or Strength of Gork.
- Lots of buffs
- Relentless + Impact + Big Bosses
- Empowered Black Orcs have attack 7 and toughness 7 in combat, which means they don't die. Use Eager troops to get them in melee quickly
- The Wolf riders are there for mobile support- shoot, run, repeat. In a pinch, they can pin something for a turn so you can reach it and kill it with another unit. You could replace them with Orc Boyz and a +2 on the initiative roll.
-----------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------
32/33 Kairos Fateweaver
x3 Flamers
x1 Plaguebearers

32/33 Archaon the Everchosen
x3 Flamers
x1 Plaguebearers

My favourite list. Play with Arcane Attack, Nurgle's Rot, Storm of Chaos and either Intimidate or Assault.
- All arcane damage, all day. If playing against Elves, murder the High Mages fast. If playing against Empire, laugh before or after your turn.
- Use Intimidate to force enemies onto Archaon, to get them within range of the Flamers, or to push them closer to Plaguebearers.
- Medium range firestorm from the Flamers and battle abilities. Try to keep both heroes alive, you need them for Arcane attack. On the other hand, Nurgle's Rot is castable from almost every disk.
- Replace 2 disks in each regiment with a Bloodthirster and suddenly you have 2 Bloodthirsters (and +4 on the initiative roll). The good thing about BTs in this list is that if your opponent piles on top of them, you can pick them clean with the Flamers, with very low risk to your BTs (resistant).
-----------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------
33/36 Volkmar the Grim
x2 Marienburg Swordsmen
x1 Steam Tank
x1 Knights Panther

33/34 Luthor Huss
x2 Marienburg Swordsmen
x1 Steam Tank
x1 Knights Panther

Just a classic Empire power list, and one that will statistically win initiative. Play with Myrmidia's Blessing, Rally, Eager Troops and Lure.
Since there are a lot of of Swordsmen to transfer activations to, you could replace Luthor with Franz. I wouldn't, but you should live your own life.
- Charge forward with the entire army, enjoying the benefits of your Mobile units and extra movement from cards.
- Smash through everything in your way with your Impact damage and Empowered infantry.
- Tanks, Knights Panther and Luthor all get damage resistance, which stacks with Empowerment handily, especially on disks with wounds.
-----------------------------------------------
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Those are some great lists Asen. I am not so wedded to my play style that I am unwilling to try out something else. I really am intrigued by that Chaos list. Will have to look at that some more.
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Benjamin Bottorff
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I like the chaos list as well. It's almost exactly like mine except that in both regiments I'd trade out a flamer for a hellstrider and I usually prefer Valkia. I would however trade out one of the cards for a bold card. If you lose initiative, your enemy will have a guaranteed first move. EDIT: Misread, I just saw the intimidate card. In any case, I think it's important to have 1 each of the main 3, and Nugle's Rot is pretty powerful so I think it's good to keep it.

I find it kind of funny how the three armies you suggest form a rock paper scissors relationship. I wouldn't want to fight he first with the second, the second with the third, or the third with the first.
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Riku Riekkinen
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Velensk wrote:
My group doesn't do many two regiment games these days however the general concept that we've found most difficult to deal with is this one: (please don't mind my spelling I don't have my set with me)

############################################
Speed Asyrum(Bold 3)
Shield of Saphery(Devious 3)
Push (Steady 3)or Eager troops (Steady 3)
Rally (Slow 2)

Telkis or Alarille:
Sun Dragon
High Mage
2 of either militia archers or militia spearmen

Karl Franz:
Steam Tank
Knights Panther
Marienburg Swordsmanx2
############################################


My feelings are quite close to this as being the "best" list in current meta. However I would change Steam Tank to Volley Gun (& choose Alarielle as elf hero to patch it up) & upgrade one Swordmen to Greatswords (or Huntsmen). If you don't have any siege range units, its very possible that you have to attack.
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Asen Aleksandrov
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Velensk wrote:
I find it kind of funny how the three armies you suggest form a rock paper scissors relationship. I wouldn't want to fight he first with the second, the second with the third, or the third with the first.


Ahahaha I didn't notice that. So true.
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Asen Aleksandrov
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I think from the lists suggested so far, including mine, the most competitive one is the second one:

Quote:
###################################################
Speed of Asuryan (Bold 3)
Shield of Saphery (Devious 3)
Arcane Attack (Steady 2)
Rally (Slow 2) or Winds of Morag-hai

Alarielle:
Bolt Thrower
High Mage
If you choose winds of morag-hai, then 3 militia archers, else a maiden guard and either another one or a Swordsman of Horeth.

Karl Franz:
Helblaster volley gun
Knights Panther
Marienburg Swordsmen
Huntsmen
##############################################


The command cards are solid, you get 2 siege weapons and although one of them tends to blow itself up and I would not take it in an Empire-only list, Alarielle solves that problem.
Winds is perfect with 3 archers, and Mages are sick, nothing further to add on the Elf side.
In the Empire army I would lobby for Crossbowmen or Greatswords in place of the Huntsmen, really anything but Huntsmen haha. In every game we've used them so far, they have never done anything for me or my opponents. I would also not suggest Karl Franz with so few units (especially if taking Rally). If you take Volkmar instead you can then replace the Huntsmen with two more Swordsmen.
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Benjamin Bottorff
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If Huntsmen have never proven useful to you, I'd imagine that it's because you play orcs regularly. Against any other faction than orcs I find that Huntsman almost always prove their worth. Against orcs however, they tend to just get rushed down by Orc Boyz and die.

Either way though I do find it strange that you'd pick that one as being the most competitive so if you have suggestions for how to 'improve' it maybe you've figured out some way to use the pieces that I haven’t seen.
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Asen Aleksandrov
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Velensk wrote:
If Huntsmen have never proven useful to you, I'd imagine that it's because you play orcs regularly. Against any other faction than orcs I find that Huntsman almost always prove their worth. Against orcs however, they tend to just get rushed down by Orc Boyz and die.

Either way though I do find it strange that you'd pick that one as being the most competitive so if you have suggestions for how to 'improve' it maybe you've figured out some way to use the pieces that I haven’t seen.


I am not sure what you mean by pieces that you haven't seen.
My general approach is to pick disks that perform up to par for their points cost regardless of the match up, and ideally have passive abilities rather than abilities that require extra activations. So Volkmar, Archaon, War Boss, Grimgor, Plaguebearers etc.

Furthermore, I prefer fixed abilities to ones that rely on randomness (Archon > Tyrion, Boar Boyz > Bloodcrushers etc.). In my chaos list, for example, you see a lot of dice rolling from the Flamers, but the way I play them is to target a unit until it is either activated by a critical hit, or reduced to 2-3 health at which point I finish it off with Nurgle's Rot and my heroes. It's a highly manageable strategy that relies on each Flamer getting one hit, which is the standard statistical outcome of their shots; if they get more hits, that's just gravy.

With Huntsmen you are paying for situational abilities. Scout is cool, except they won't kill anything on turn 1 and will then have to spend an activation to fall back; Strider is rarely useful. Flank is wasted on them because the only viable way to play it would be with Garrison, and even if they survive, they still can't kill anything and you're stuck with another Slow 2-act. card for the entire game. For 1 point less you get a lot more firepower from the Reikland Crossbowmen.
edit: K you got me thinking hard about Huntsmen now. I guess their long range can actually be very strong for finishing off impacted units; I will reserve judgement until I play them more.

So yeah, I still think the second list is the strongest, and I have no changes to suggest I guess. I have played Franz a lot and I still don't like him as much as the other two, but he is another source of impact damage in the army and a decent combatant.
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Benjamin Bottorff
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What I meant was ways to use the disk that I havn't seen, not disks that I haven’t seen.

Franz isn't especially strong as a combatant, what he is, is the ability to duplicate the abilities of your strongest disks at the cost of your cheapest disks. If you use him, you can have an additional artillery strike, an extra impact from your knights, an extra impact and shot from your tank, more fire breath or two of the above for the cost of a 5 point unit not doing anything in a turn and Franz not moving. That can be pricelessly powerful in the right situation and it works really well with this army.

Huntsmen are durable ranged units who can appear where you want them and get where you want them to be. In the artillery army I like them because I can bring them onto the field in a spread out position already (and thus not have to spend limited logistics to get them into position. On other armies I bring them in with Garrison to provide an ambush where they can either move into the melee for a reliable 3 damage and survive with their toughness. Alternatively you can use them for ranged support. I like to actually use them before impacting people to see if they will hit or if they can pin things. I actually frequently find them useful in melees, just not against orcs.
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So I played in my first tournament at CoolStuff in Maitland, FL. I decided that the High Elf-Empire artillery army was a little too much for me to manage using Franz so I went with the following:

Kairos
3xFlamers
!x Plaugebearer

Archaon
1xBloodthirster
1xFlamer
1xPlaugebearer

I used Arcane Assualt, Blood for Blood God, Nurgle's Rot and Chaos Storm.

I won matches against an Ork melee force and a 2 thirster chaos list. I lost to a High Elf "magic list" with Teclis, Alarielle, 2 Sun dragons, high mage and maidens. I had a brief chance against the high elfs but was outwitted on an important card play.

Overall I like this list, the only thing I am not sure about is Arcane Attack and Archaon as one of the two heroes. Arcane attack didnot do much for me in any of the games. Archaon had a few moments but never any great plays. I wonder if Valkia would not be a better choice.

Nurgle's rot was the star of the show. Flmers would put some damage on, the rot would drop health and boom one kill/wound.
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Good job! I'm impressed that you took down the two thirster list as although normally I wouldn't be too worried about that (two thirsters = little support) but with that army you'd have to be careful.

Archeon is potentially very powerful and aside from the bloodthirster is one of the best counters to tightly packed enemies. I'd say though, that the card that makes him shine is intimidate. With intimidate you can either force enemies to engage you for extra magic splash or invalidate an engagement against you while retaining the magic splash making him both hard to engage and deadly to be around. I think you could easily replace arcane assault for that.
 
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The thirster player was new and we had the conquest special rule. He put his Kairos in the windmill at about midfield. I put hills down and plopped my thirster down. It created a situation where he committed his Archaon to try and save Kairos and I ended up killing both before his thirster so got too involved.

Going to play around with Intimidate and see how that works.
 
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