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Subject: Is this game just too long for what it offers? rss

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Robert
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I own the base game of Citadels, but have only managed to bring it to the table no more than a few times.
While I know, that it was one of the first to introduce the role-selection mechanism, I always have the feeling it should be a filler - yet drags on for about 60-90 minutes and does feel even longer.

The role-selection and deduction is fun, but the more players you have, the longer it takes, but this is not my main point of criticism.

The building aspect feels separated from the rest of the game. I always have the feeling it was tacked on.

I just can't seem to bring people to play it. The Resistance: Avalon and Coup are awesome deduction games, yet Citadels seems to overstay its welcome.

Maybe I just haven't played this one enough?

How do you think about this topic?
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Noord Brabant
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I can only confirm that with more players the game just drags on too long. It's a 4-5 player game for me. With that amount of players I love it. It's long-ish, but not too long for what it is.

Resistance and Coup are a totally different type of game for me. It's a building game with a deduction factor.
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David Stahler Jr.
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It's one of those games that's hard to predict. It can go quickly, but we've certainly had games drag out with a lot of players.

Two suggestions:

Encourage whoever is the king to be snappy at calling out the roles to keep things moving. It's easy to space and have dead time as people try to figure out what stage you're on.

As suggested in the rulebook, cut back on the number of districts needed to end the game from eight to seven. This makes a big difference! Sometimes, we've even set a time limit. Start with eight, and if the game is still going after X amount of time, the trigger goes down to seven.
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Moose Detective
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Citadels is one of those games where I just don't get the people who claim it provokes analysis paralysis and takes too long.

Get role cards, pick one, pass cards. It shouldn't take more than a moment to decide. I don't know what people think they're puzzling out by taking a long time. Its a best guess scenario. There is no "right" answer.

And your turn should also be quick..there's barely a choice most of the time.

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We've instituted some rules to ensure a speedier game:
--if you're a newbie, you get 10s per decision point. If you're experienced, 5s per decision point. Only exceptions are if you have questions, but there shouldn't be too many of them
--consider playing up to 7 or 6 districts (instead of 8) to trigger the last round. This shaves off half an hour to an hour off the game easily
--Have the current player declare when he's done with his turn and call out the next roles until someone takes over. The rule that the player with the crown marker has to do this was arbitrary anyways.



stevelabny wrote:
Citadels is one of those games where I just don't get the people who claim it provokes analysis paralysis and takes too long.

Get role cards, pick one, pass cards. It shouldn't take more than a moment to decide. I don't know what people think they're puzzling out by taking a long time. Its a best guess scenario. There is no "right" answer.

And your turn should also be quick..there's barely a choice most of the time.

You need to play with the "right" groups is all.

Do the math.... Taking a bite out of the above tips, if each player takes 30s to 1 minute per turn instead of just 10s to 30s, that's an extra 30s per turn. Multiply that 6 to 8p, then that figure by the # of rounds in the game (less than 8 minimum since Arch can build multiple districts in a turn, but usually more than 11 since the Warlord will usually destroy the 1 or 2 buildings of opponents who are zooming ahead).... even half of that adds up to an hour or so. Well, you'll have fast turns too, but I've seen some turns take over a few minutes too.

What's so hard about it? It shouldn't be, but remember not all groups are equal. I've played with groups where a couple of people exclaim, "Man this game is too complicated" while playing Settlers Of Catan or Kingsburg (of which both games are considered newbie friendly).

Another case in point is how someone on BGG said a 3p game of Cities & Knights of Catan can be played by them in as little as 1 hour. Many of my experienced groups can't even do that with Settlers Of Catan, let alone C&K. Settlers is still average 1.35 hour game with them.
 
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John Woods
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My group plays Citadels when we have too many people (6+) to all play a smaller game together. We usually don't have a problem with it time-wise, but there can be some analysis paralysis when it comes to role selection and that can bog down the game.
 
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Diz Hooper
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Yes.
 
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Mark Papenfuss
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WhiteWalker wrote:

While I know, that it was one of the first to introduce the role-selection mechanism, I always have the feeling it should be a filler - yet drags on for about 60-90 minutes and does feel even longer.

The role-selection and deduction is fun, but the more players you have, the longer it takes....
How do you think about this topic?


Yeah. It's not a filler game. It can take 60-90 minutes if you're playing the full game. I play with people who are generally fairly quick with their turns, and yet it still drags. This plays best with 4-5p, I think.

I like the game, but these points keep me from ranking it higher. I'm with you all the way.

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mpappy wrote:
WhiteWalker wrote:

While I know, that it was one of the first to introduce the role-selection mechanism, I always have the feeling it should be a filler - yet drags on for about 60-90 minutes and does feel even longer.

The role-selection and deduction is fun, but the more players you have, the longer it takes....
How do you think about this topic?


Yeah. It's not a filler game. It can take 60-90 minutes if you're playing the full game. I play with people who are generally fairly quick with their turns, and yet it still drags. This plays best with 4-5p, I think.

I like the game, but these points keep me from ranking it higher. I'm with you all the way.

FWIW, the 2p and 3p games take 15 to 30 minutes since picking 2 roles per player per round does speed things up dramatically. I know several people who will only play this with 2p or 3p.
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Eddie
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Play the first-to-six variant; should be in the files or variants. It has adjusted end game city size (six) and adjusted bonuses too.

Playing the normal 8 imho should be done only if everyone understands and agrees - this is somewhat of a gamer's game, and it will take time, but it is a Very Good Game(tm)
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Robert
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Just to let you know: I've sold Citadels, as it never got played again, as it was too long for what it was.
Witch's Brew is similar, but shorter, but also not my cup of tea.
 
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