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Subject: 9 Locomotive is too strong and needs some kind of "nerfing" rss

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bestia immonda
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OK, since are popping out more session reports that state what I was thinking since the first plays of RR I re-state the obvious ( to me! ):

the bonus 9 Locomotive is WAY too strong.

Inb4 "I won with the Engineer/Factory strategy ur DEAD WRONG":
ofc you can win even without the 9 Loc, that's possible but in my opinion is a uphill, frustrating struggle to compete against the player that gets a fast 9 Loc.
The 9 Loc is always superstrong and has no drawbacks; only one player can get it ( at least there's competition for Engineers and Factories ) and just plopping it on the Kiev ( or Transiberian line ) earns craploads of points while focusing on other stuff like competing for engineers, factories or whatever.
There's absolutely no counterplay to the sheer power of the 9 Loc, and badly needs IMHO something that slighty diminishes its value ( the only drawback is the screwage if you are trying hard to get it and you fail in the attempt ).

Well, this is no Halifax Hammer that broke A Few Acres of Snow, but anyway it is a huge FAIL in my book and something that makes me stay away from the game even if I really wanted to enjoy it.




 
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Nate Walker
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Re: 9 Locomotive is retarded and needs some kind of "nerfing"
nicktaruffi wrote:
it is a huge FAIL in my book and something that makes me stay away from the game even if I really wanted to enjoy it.


Then don't play it.
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Re: 9 Locomotive is retarded and needs some kind of "nerfing"
hatemachine wrote:
nicktaruffi wrote:
it is a huge FAIL in my book and something that makes me stay away from the game even if I really wanted to enjoy it.


Then don't play it.


What about solving the issue and getting it back on my table?

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Paul M
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Re: 9 Locomotive is retarded and needs some kind of "nerfing"
There are still four other face-up card bonuses. Just eliminate the 9-train and be done with it. I don't take it anymore because it is too easy and it always does well, so I try other things.
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Bryan Thunkd
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Re: 9 Locomotive is retarded and needs some kind of "nerfing"
nicktaruffi wrote:
There's absolutely no counterplay to the sheer power of the 9 Loc
Untrue.
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Re: 9 Locomotive is retarded and needs some kind of "nerfing"
ipgyst wrote:
There are still four other face-up card bonuses. Just eliminate the 9-train and be done with it. I don't take it anymore because it is too easy and it always does well, so I try other things.


This is a good suggestion, thanks!
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Re: 9 Locomotive is retarded and needs some kind of "nerfing"
Thunkd wrote:
nicktaruffi wrote:
There's absolutely no counterplay to the sheer power of the 9 Loc
Untrue.


Care to elaborate?
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Bryan Thunkd
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Re: 9 Locomotive is retarded and needs some kind of "nerfing"
nicktaruffi wrote:
Thunkd wrote:
nicktaruffi wrote:
There's absolutely no counterplay to the sheer power of the 9 Loc
Untrue.


Care to elaborate?
It all depends on the situation, who's pursuing which strategy, etc. I've beaten the 9 train and been beat when playing the 9 train. It's strong, sure, but nowhere near unbeatable.
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chris leko
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Re: 9 Locomotive is retarded and needs some kind of "nerfing"
Can you please change the thread title? It's a bit offensive.
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Neil Christiansen
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Re: 9 Locomotive is retarded and needs some kind of "nerfing"
Yeah, I find the title of the thread offensive too, for reasons that I would hope were obvious. I was going to let it go rather than risk a lengthy sidebar, but I second the motion to change it.

If you think it is too powerful, houserule it to be a '7'.
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often wrote:
Can you please change the thread title? It's a bit offensive.


Better?

Didn't mean to offend anybody.
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Dave Eisen
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Not obvious to me.

The 9 train is good. But so is an extra worker with bonuses in building black track. The extra engineer is a solid engineer and can easily be worth 20 points just by taking "most engineers".

The other two are less interesting, but it probably is a good thing that they are not all equally good as that pushes a race to acquire one of the good ones.
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chris leko
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nicktaruffi wrote:
often wrote:
Can you please change the thread title? It's a bit offensive.


Better?

Didn't mean to offend anybody.


Thanks! I work with special education students, so I'm a bit sensitive. Thank you very much.
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Tyler McLaughlin
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This game doesn't need to be fixed.

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often wrote:
nicktaruffi wrote:
often wrote:
Can you please change the thread title? It's a bit offensive.


Better?

Didn't mean to offend anybody.


Thanks! I work with special education students, so I'm a bit sensitive. Thank you very much.


No problem, I see this word often in videogaming forums and because I'm not a native english speaker I didn't think about it!
Sorry again
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Jimmy Okolica
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I'm curious how many players you normally play with. The 9T is great for Kiev + Factory but I think the extra engineer is significantly stronger for a trans-Siberian strategy. With 4 players, the extra turn makes the trans-Siberian stronger and I suspect makes the extra engineer beeter than the 9T for the player using it.
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Jeff W
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My current theory is that whichever one of the Kiev/Industry players (if there are more than 1) gets the 9 locomotive will get the higher score. But a TransSiberian player can beat this score, especially if he can get a third "?".
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Josh
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I think the 9 train is strong not so much for the Kiev line itself but for the combo-flip off of St. Petersburg. 4 train to the petersberg to unlock the ? 9 train on the same line, another little hop with the black rail to unlock the second ? for whatever you please, then later you can bump the 9 train off st. Petersburg to wherever you like(trans-siberian to be your only needed train for scoring there or couple it with another 4+ to unlock the third ?, or Kiev to combine with the silver rail bonus you just unlocked with your second ?). The ? are powerful no matter your strategy, so is a good solid 9 train. The other bonuses are good, but much more situational.
 
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Paul M
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You can't bump a 9-train from anywhere, can you?
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Josh
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You could be right. I never tried it myself in my games, but I thought about it as a possibility.

Edit:Even without flipping it, using it for a fast double ? Can be a strong push.
 
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Butterfly0038 wrote:
I'm curious how many players you normally play with. The 9T is great for Kiev + Factory but I think the extra engineer is significantly stronger for a trans-Siberian strategy. With 4 players, the extra turn makes the trans-Siberian stronger and I suspect makes the extra engineer beeter than the 9T for the player using it.


I play with 3 and 4 players.
Problem is, you can get fierce competition for factories and engineers, but only one player can get the significant bonus of the 9T.
Dunno, in all my games ( and I've got severals under the belt ) with expert players all the times there is a rush to get the 9T. Seems a no brainer to me!
Granted, the 9T is not a guaranteed victory but....sorta
 
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Josh
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I think it comes down to the unique positioning of what it offers. I'm not in the 'game breaking' camp so much as 'uniquely powerful' camp.

Bonus rundown:

Schitzophrenic bonus: doubler, industry, rail+1 thing, this is the one I see taken least because it doesn't focus anywhere.

Industry:Going industrial? This saves you 3 workers, but doesn't give you advance access. You can do this from turn one.

Extra Engineer:The Engineer is strong, can help win the engineer bonus if you are going that route(which locks you into a plan a bit) but he just moves tracks, this is again not anything really special. There's the 1R+1W space from turn 1 that does what he does. Oh hey, you get a coin too! Bonus.

Special Worker:HEy it's a worker, they're always good! The little boost to black rails is nice, but 'advance one black space' is an unblockable action if you need it, so this one saves you a bit of resources but isn't unique. Unlocking the other workers is something that really comes naturally to playing the game, both involve doing things to score you lots of points anyway(kiev or brown rail movement) and can be done very early in the game.

Lastly the loco el diablo. This gives you a 9 train right out of the gate. To fully unlock smaller rails you don't *need* a 9, so lets call it an 8 for laughs. If you grab the first 4 train to unlock the ?(easiest route I believe) that means there are(in a 4P game) 15 more engines between you and the next person who can grab an 8(the 16th is an 8) On the board that's 4 rounds worth of engine taking(two either or spaces and one both space for train/industry) There's a couple shortcuts to knock maybe one round off this wholesale, but that still puts you 3 rounds up on anyone else with that beast. Put it on any line you like, you're got access half a game early to awesome stuff.

That early access(almost half a game's worth!) is where the 9 locomotive bonus really stands out as 'unique' from the other bonuses.
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piotr s
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How many times you play?
What score you get when you use that supper overpowered locomotive?
I play in this game 19 times and I think that black worker and engineer are better in 90% of situations.

This game have many balanced strategy.
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Martin Juhl
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As said, there are three very interesting bonus Cards; Black worker, Extra engeneer and the 9 loco.

The last two both seems kind of uninteresting, but the free factory + 2 industry steps can sometimes be effective for an all-out Industry startegy.

That leaves the last card (X2 + Industy move + Black rail + one more action of your choice) as the least desired card by far. Most of all because it does point in opposite directions strategy wise.

I have very rarely seen this card been taken and I think it is indeed underpowered.

Thinking about changing it to (X2 + Industry move + ANY rail + one more action of your choice) as I think it would be somewhat more attractive without beeing overpowered at all.

What do you guys think??

 
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Nate Walker
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nicktaruffi wrote:
hatemachine wrote:
nicktaruffi wrote:
it is a huge FAIL in my book and something that makes me stay away from the game even if I really wanted to enjoy it.


Then don't play it.


What about solving the issue and getting it back on my table?



Sell it and play something better. It's not that great.
 
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