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Combat Commander: Europe» Forums » Rules

Subject: Op fire question, and move question rss

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Mark Caskey
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Op fire : if a unit is activated to move and moves into the hex occupied by a friendly unit , and in so doing triggers op fire attack against itself, does the fire attack resolve against only the moving unit, or does the stationary non activated unit also get attacked?

Op fire extension :if both units in the situation above are attacked and the attacker has played a Crossfire action boosting the attack strength against a moving target by two, is this attack boost also applied to the stationary target?

Move question: if a unit is moving through another friendly non activated stationary unit, and the non activated stationary unit has a weapon, can the moving activated unit pick up the weapon , paying a +1 penalty? Or does the unit that has the weapon have to be activated, to give up the weapon? it is a bit of a corner case, and i have not seen the need for it so fare, but i worry about these kind of things.

thanks!

Mark
 
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Richard Pardoe
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mcaskey11925 wrote:
Op fire : if a unit is activated to move and moves into the hex occupied by a friendly unit , and in so doing triggers op fire attack against itself, does the fire attack resolve against only the moving unit, or does the stationary non activated unit also get attacked?


A33.2 (second bullet) (my emphasis):
make one Fire Attack against that hex with any of his units that were activated for Op Fire at any point during this same Move Order.

(and)
O20.3.4 Fire Defense Roll (my emphasis):
A player has to make a Fire Defense Roll – one at a time in any order desired – for each of his units that were in a hex at the moment that a Fire Attack Roll was made against it.


Quote:
if both units in the situation above are attacked and the attacker has played a Crossfire action boosting the attack strength against a moving target by two, is this attack boost also applied to the stationary target?

Yes. The effect of A.30 Crossfire is: Increase the Fire Attack’s FP by +2. No exception is listed for increasing the total against "moving units only". This is an example of the advice to interpret rules strictly and apply exactly what they state. Don't infer anything other than what is written in the rules.

Quote:
Move question: if a unit is moving through another friendly non activated stationary unit, and the non activated stationary unit has a weapon, can the moving activated unit pick up the weapon , paying a +1 penalty?

No. 11.3 states: A Weapon may be transferred to another unit via the expenditure of 1 MP during a Move Order. Notice, a unit spends 1 MP to transfer to another unit. A unit does not spend 1 MP to receive a weapon.
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Mark Buetow
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mcaskey11925 wrote:
Op fire : if a unit is activated to move and moves into the hex occupied by a friendly unit , and in so doing triggers op fire attack against itself, does the fire attack resolve against only the moving unit, or does the stationary non activated unit also get attacked?

Op fire extension :if both units in the situation above are attacked and the attacker has played a Crossfire action boosting the attack strength against a moving target by two, is this attack boost also applied to the stationary target?


Yes to both. Fire attacks are always against a hex. Note, however, that in the case of a tie, a unit activated to move is broken where the stationary unit would only be suppressed.

Quote:

Move question: if a unit is moving through another friendly non activated stationary unit, and the non activated stationary unit has a weapon, can the moving activated unit pick up the weapon , paying a +1 penalty? Or does the unit that has the weapon have to be activated, to give up the weapon? it is a bit of a corner case, and i have not seen the need for it so fare, but i worry about these kind of things.

thanks!

Mark


The unit with the weapon has to be activated and pay the cost to transfer it.
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Mark Caskey
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thanks!

Mark
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Ahmed Hadzi
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Malacandra wrote:
Yes to both. Fire attacks are always against a hex. Note, however, that in the case of a tie, a unit activated to move is broken where the stationary unit would only be suppressed.


To be really precise the stationary unit could also break if they are activated for the move but hadn't move yet. Tying Defense roll with FP roll will break any unit activated for a move which had it's hex attacked, regardless of whether they are moving at the time of the shot or not.

This is especially good if you have spray fire!
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Dan Huffman
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And on a related note, you could move a unit and his weapon into a hex with another unit and weapon .... then give the non-moving unit the moving unit's weapon. If the turn ended there, you'd have to eliminate one of the weapons....BUT, you could then use another move card to activate the other (previously non-moving) unit, have it give the weapon to the first (now-inactive) unit. And then move away.


Hope that wasn't too confusing.
 
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Richard Pardoe
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huffman123 wrote:
you could move a unit and his weapon into a hex with another unit and weapon .... then give the non-moving unit the moving unit's weapon. If the turn ended there, you'd have to eliminate one of the weapons....

Incorrect, you would have to eliminate the receiving unit's weapon prior to transfer as a unit may only have one weapon at a time.

Read 8.1 Marker Stacking and notice that marker stacking (which includes weapons) is enforced immediately after placement not at the end of the turn.
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Ruben Rigillo
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I'm quite a newbie here BUT
The crossfire action statement ON THE CARD is "add +2 when firing at a moving target".
So why include the +2 to a stationary target though in the same hex of the moving one?
 
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Mark Buetow
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Qwirz wrote:
I'm quite a newbie here BUT
The crossfire action statement ON THE CARD is "add +2 when firing at a moving target".
So why include the +2 to a stationary target though in the same hex of the moving one?


Because shots are always against a hex. If the unit is moving, it'll draw fire at the stationary unit too.
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Dan Huffman
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Dang,

That's what I get for not double checking the rules before I make my comments. :-(

Thanks, Richard. :-)
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Richard Pardoe
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Qwirz wrote:
I'm quite a newbie here BUT
The crossfire action statement ON THE CARD is "add +2 when firing at a moving target".
So why include the +2 to a stationary target though in the same hex of the moving one?

My explanation: Because one fires at a HEX that contains moving targets and everything in the hex is targeted by the fire attack total. While you are firing at moving units, you are also firing at every other unit in the hex as well.

Rules explanation:
The moving unit part of the action is the prerequisite that allows the action to be played:
A30. Crossfire
Crossfire may only be played just prior to the player making a Fire Attack Roll, and only when firing at one or more moving [O21] units.


The effect or result of the action is to increase the fire attack total:
Effect—Increase the Fire Attack’s FP by +2.

The prerequisite (moving units) is a separate consideration from the effect (increase Fire Attack by +2).

Finally a gentle reminder that the card text is just a hint/reminder of an Event/Action. The rulebook has the full and complete text for both Events and Actions and should be checked if there is any doubt about an Event/Action.
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Confusion Under Fire
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Qwirz wrote:
I'm quite a newbie here BUT
The crossfire action statement ON THE CARD is "add +2 when firing at a moving target".
So why include the +2 to a stationary target though in the same hex of the moving one?


Remember that a fire attack total is locked in. This will never change until the attack has been resolved. The crossfire action modifies the attack total so therefore cannot be changed for individual targets such as moving or stationary targets.
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Ruben Rigillo
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Thanks for the clarification, guys.
I was confused by the statement "when cards and rules conflict, cards give the rule".
Everything is clear now....also a new way to pay attention to this great game rules!
 
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BrentS
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ahmedhadzi wrote:
Malacandra wrote:
Yes to both. Fire attacks are always against a hex. Note, however, that in the case of a tie, a unit activated to move is broken where the stationary unit would only be suppressed.


To be really precise the stationary unit could also break if they are activated for the move but hadn't move yet. Tying Defense roll with FP roll will break any unit activated for a move which had it's hex attacked, regardless of whether they are moving at the time of the shot or not.

This is especially good if you have spray fire!


I hadn't realised this and it's highly situational but yes, by a plain reading of the rules without inferring what isn't written, that's true. Thanks (always learn something reading these threads ).

While there is something to be said for clean economy in rules (and there are none cleaner and more economical than CC:Europe), sometimes understanding is best served with an explanatory note, particularly where a situation isn't intuitive, as in this case……this is one that might have warranted a grey box clarification, despite its rare occurrence.

Brent.
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