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Subject: arty vs tanks rss

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olivier R
France
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Does anyone else feel that arty is too effective against tanks?

This is something that has been bothering me a little since I started playing TCS. 10+ on two dice, this is 16,7% for each step in the hex, if I am not mistaken. Of course it goes down to 8,33% if you put your tanks in move mode. But this is without fast fire. It sounds a bit high to me. In the games I have played so far, it feels like artillery is the main killer of tanks, which sounds wrong. AT guns should be the main tank killers not arty imo.

But it goes beyond the mere probabilities; my main gripe with it is about the way it influences the behaviour of players. Often you have tanks getting in position to fire at the defense and with the rules as they are now, the answer seems to be to place a fast fire barrage on the tanks. This way they either get into move mode and then they can't fire an SFA because you have to be in fire mode at the beginning of the action phase or they decide to stay put and suffer crippling losses. And what does it lead to? It leads to tanks being unable to provide fire support and do what they're supposed to do i.e. pummel infantry with HE or having to abandon the field if they try to stand their ground

The way I see it, tank destructions should be a side effect, something that happens from time to time, not the main effect of artillery barrages unless you really lay down the smack on them and saturate an area with heavy caliber barrages. Moreover, as a consequence of this rule, you often get a situation where it is the tanks that withdraw because they fail their vehicle morale leaving the infantry alone. I have no problem with tanks being forced to withdraw when they suffer too many losses. But it shouldn't be arty that causes that. My understanding is that it was usually the other way round. Tanks become isolated because arty pummels the infantry which can't keep up with the advance. And then tanks left alone get chewed up. So this is a bit backward to me. I think it forces an ahistorical behaviour.

So I have come up with this house rule, well more like a small tweak to the existing rules really.

You need a 11+ to destroy a tank step, not a 10+.

120 mm or bigger get a +1 modifier, open tops or AFVs with an armour value of 1 or 2 get a +1, dug in tanks get a -1, rockets have a 0 mofidier.

And finally a 12 always destroys a step.

Basically, you can still get the same effect and results if you barrage with 122 or 150mm. Dug in tanks shouldn't be forced to get in move mode, it defeats the purpose of being dug in in the first place. Open top AFVs should be more vulnerable to artillery and rockets lose their negative modifier since the default kill number has been raised.

Any comments, critics, feedback or suggestions welcome.
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Jonathan Holen
United States
Washington
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To clarify what version are you using?
 
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olivier R
France
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The latest, the one that comes with Canadian Crucible. I am playing GD'42 at the moment though.

I think this is going to slightly help the attacker, so maybe a small tweak to the efficiency of AT guns should be introduced to balance it out. I haven't come up with one I like yet though. But let's face it, attacking can be pretty damn hard. And it is as it should be really, but overall I think this could increase realism a bit.
 
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Davide Grandini
Italy
Rubiera
Reggio Emilia
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I'm playing GD'40 and I didn't find it so effective. I didn't fire any Fast Fire mission due to the lack of ammo (10 HE in total to be saved for a very long time before reinforcements) and used arty to try to slow down the infantry move on Stonne. The only mission I fired against tanks moving on open finished quite miserably.
Probably it depends on the ammo you've got for each scenario, but for this game, your point it's not a issue.
My 2 cents.
 
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