Tim
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The subject says it all. I owe a debt of gratitude to the Wings of Glory series for being the game that introduced me to my local gaming group when I finally got up the courage to join meetup.com and ask someone if they would bring the game. But I am leery of this one because the previous games based on this model never keep my attention for long. It's a game system I respect, and I want to love, but there are never enough details for me. This one seems fairly detailed.

I played Wings of War but eventually moved on to Buffalo Wings and Birds of Prey: Air Combat in the Jet Age.

I played Star Trek: Attack Wing but quickly moved on to Federation Commander (and eventually Star Fleet Battles).

I can't imagine buying enough ships for trafalgar in this set. You'd be in the poorhouse... That said, as you can see by my tastes in Birds of Prey and Star Fleet Battles, I prefer small skirmish games of 1-2 units per side. Is there enough meat on these bones for me? What do you think?

I already own Close Action, which, with history as a guide, is the logical conclusion to which I would arrive after playing this a handful of times...

But I'm clearly a sucker who can not learn from past mistakes. I really enjoy Wooden Ships & Iron Men, although I rarely get to play it because when I reach for a game that long I am usually reaching for one of the other aforementioned games.

I really think I'm just a sucker for the gorgeous minis. I keep telling myself I'd be much better off buying a bag of pewter minis for $30 and painting up a huge fleet myself.

EDIT:
I'm trying to think what it is that attracts me to some of these games and not others. I think a lot of it lies in the "maneuver". In Birds of Prey the game is a puzzle. How do I orient myself here to get the enemy in front of my guns? I loved the use of cards for movement in Wings of War, but the altitude abstraction was just too... well... abstract. It felt tacked on. That, and there was never a "master rulebook" compendium released, so finding the right rule and knowing what expansion it was released in was really annoying.

I also liked that in Wings of War you had to plan your moves out a few turns ahead. That really appeals to me.

But the damage system was far too random in WoW.

The Star Wars/Trek games fixed the damage system, but they removed the "play in advance" aspect that I loved so much. It also became much more of a "point based army building" game, and less of a "scenario re-enactment" game. I *much* prefer scenarios, but every time I've played, or seen these games played it's, "build an army of X points". Bleh. I don't get into that sort of min-maxing outside of the game before you play. If I did, I would just play M:TG and call it a day.

I haven't looked at the rules for this game yet. I'm sure they are online (probably linked below), but I suspect for this game to be appealing to me there will need to be A) scenarios. And preferably scenarios with more varied victory conditions than "sink the other guys". B) Options! Chain shot. Grape shot. Rakes. Grappling. Boarding parties. Fire ships!


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Jeffrey Nolin
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This is probably just a variation on a theme (mechanics) that doesn't work for you. You haven't said that you just love the Age of Sail, so I'd wait until you can play someone else's copy.
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Tim
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longagoigo wrote:
This is probably just a variation on a theme (mechanics) that doesn't work for you. You haven't said that you just love the Age of Sail, so I'd wait until you can play someone else's copy.


I've been editing. I'm not a hardcore age of sail fan, but I am a fan. I own Close Action and Wooden Ships and Iron Men. I owned Flying Colors, but that one didn't scratch the itch (was too focused on large fleet actions and didn't tick the right boxes for me).

I read Horatio Hornblower and absolutely ADORED the TV series based on the same.

I can't name every ship in the British fleet, or identify them by their markings as a true dyed in the wool naval combat aficionado, but I do consider myself a fan of the period and of naval tactics. After all, isn't Star Fleet Battles (SFB) just naval tactics with phasers... Let's put it this way, there is a race in SFB that has phasers mounted in broadside batteries, and that's the race I always want to try.

I do like my wargames crunchy/detailed and maneuver/position based. But then again, I already have a bunch of crunchy games. Nobody has time to play all of those. Maybe what I need is something light and quick (he assure's himself, but fooling no one).

Quote:
so I'd wait until you can play someone else's copy.

I think I'm afraid if I don't get it now it will disappear like the last miniatures line that I fell in love with (Axis & Allies Air Force Miniatures: Angels 20). Those are the best WWII aircraft minis ever made. I bought a bunch, but apparently I was the only one because WOTC dumped it after only one expansion.
 
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Geo
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tofarley wrote:
I'm not a hardcore age of sail fan, but I am a fan. I own Close Action and Wooden Ships and Iron Men.


Since you prefer more complex games and you don't care about shiny components (miniatures) stick with Close Action/WSIM.

Sails of Glory is on the same league as X-Wing/Attack Wing with the added disadvantage of allowing only minor customization.
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Tim
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GeoMan wrote:
tofarley wrote:
I'm not a hardcore age of sail fan, but I am a fan. I own Close Action and Wooden Ships and Iron Men.


Since you prefer more complex games and you don't care about shiny components (miniatures) stick with Close Action/WSIM.

Sails of Glory is on the same league as X-Wing/Attack Wing with the added disadvantage of allowing only minor customization.


I've always prided myself on the fact that I don't care about fancy components and miniatures, mostly cause cardboard counters are so much easier to store and transport, but I worry that I'm being converted. I have a growing collection of minis (many of them given to me by evil people!)
 
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Kevin Duke
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I think you like the ships and that is why you keep asking.

And I don't agree at all with geo. There is a lot more here if you want to get into the advanced and optional rules. How the cards interact with wind direction is ( quietly) one of the smartest things I've seen in gaming in a long time.

So read the rules yourself and see.

http://www.aresgames.eu/category/downloads+sails-of-glory-ga...
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Martin Gallo
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Once you add in the optional rules to the advanced game there is more going on than WS&IM but not quite as much detail in the sailing aspect as CA.

If you want to get "crunchy" (the current term to describe math heavy, detail oriented things) then CA or one of the other miniatures rules sets out there might be more your "thing". SoG shines for me because I like the balance of detail and playability. I do chafe a bit against the bounds restrictions to reality (wind speeds, effects of gusts and sea states) forced upon us to make the game much more playable but usually just grin, play my next turn maneuver card and have a great time.

One HUGE advantage is that these ship minis will work with other games. (larger hex mats may be required)
 
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Michael McFall
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Tim

Kevin is on target. I also think that Sails of Glory is not just a another Wings of Glory variant.

Why do I say there is a clear difference? Two simple examples:

-Wings of War deal with altitude and shows it via the flight stands.

-Sails of Glory; you can stop the ships.

I could go on but I won't. Those two examples should be enough.
 
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Eric Boyle
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GeoMan wrote:
tofarley wrote:
I'm not a hardcore age of sail fan, but I am a fan. I own Close Action and Wooden Ships and Iron Men.


Since you prefer more complex games and you don't care about shiny components (miniatures) stick with Close Action/WSIM.

Sails of Glory is on the same league as X-Wing/Attack Wing with the added disadvantage of allowing only minor customization.


I thought the OP said he was a sucker for shiny minis? I disagree with the customization comment above. Lots of room for house rules, scenario variants, custom painting and rigging of the minis, etc. Just go to the dedicated site: www.sailsofglory.org

BTW: You can't get a bag of minis at a similar scale for $30. They'll run you $10-15 each. Then you have to assemble and paint. So SOG minis are a great deal if you don't already have a collection of ships. Much better than using counters IMO.

Eric
 
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J. Emmett
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tofarley wrote:
there was never a "master rulebook" compendium released, so finding the right rule and knowing what expansion it was released in was really annoying.

There are now: Wings of Glory: WW1 Rules and Accessories Pack and Wings of Glory: WW2 Rules and Accessories Pack (not sure if you were talking about WW1 or WW2). Just in case you wanted to get back into it.

tofarley wrote:
B) Options! Chain shot. Grape shot. Rakes. Grappling. Boarding parties. Fire ships!

All those except fire ships are in the rule book.
 
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Tim
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DeRuyter wrote:


BTW: You can't get a bag of minis at a similar scale for $30. They'll run you $10-15 each. Then you have to assemble and paint. So SOG minis are a great deal if you don't already have a collection of ships. Much better than using counters IMO.

Eric


Of course not, but 1/3000 scale minis from navwar are about $12 for a bag of 10 ships. You could buy a fleet for under $40 and paint them up. And while SoG scale is impressive to behold, let's face it storing and finding table space for 1/3000 scale is much easier.

I think you all have helped me stave off the compulsion to buy Sails of Glory. I'm going to get navwar minis for my other games.

My paint jobs won't be nearly as nice as these, and it won't be as majestic to behold, but I'll have a personal attachment to them after all the painting.
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