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Canadian Crucible: Brigade Fortress at Norrey» Forums » General

Subject: [link] arty vs tank rss

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olivier R
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I posted a little analysis + some tentative house rules about arty vs tanks on the general TCS serie page. I am linking it here too since it is the latest opus in the serie for people who are not subscribed to the other place.

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1166711/arty-vs-tanks

If you have any comments, please post them in the other thread for convenience.
 
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Kev.
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Are you assigning arty to formations or using any formation anywhere in GD '42?
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olivier R
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I have tried to incorporate the extra arty rules present in Canadian Crucible that force you to assign arty batteries or battalions to specific op sheets.

I am doing the 4.3 GD'42 scenario; I have two op sheets for the Germans, one for Grossdeutschland and one for both the battalions defending the southern area of the map. Each op sheet has its own arty and in addition I also kept one battery as an army asset that both formations can use. Someone mentioned that here somewhere and I liked the idea. They suggested having the army level arty having a delay to offset the added flexibility.

It helps a bit, but there is nothing forcing you to have several op sheets actually. I chose to do it that way because I thought it made sense but you could just as well create a single op sheet for all the defenders. In this case this restrictions doesn't do much.
 
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Rick McKown
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The rules on arty & Op Sheets in CC ties in with a restriction placed on the Germans to have only one infantry battalion on an Op Sheet--makes it more difficult for them to coordinate their attacks in the early part of the game. While it is not difficult (outside of that sort of special restriction) to have everybody on a single Op Sheet at the start of a game, in a long scenario (especially a CG) that eventually breaks down; in particular you can't take advantage of all-Vehicle Op Sheets when you have everyone on one big one, which dramatically slows down your ability to respond. Once you have placed your tanks on a separate Op Sheet you have to decide whether they get any arty support--and if they do then their arty is dedicated in their Op Sheet only and is not available to anyone else.

Rick
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Kev.
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which limits the volume of fire taken by the enemies Tanks. Problem almost solved. ninja
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olivier R
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I don't know if it solves the problem with tanks but it is certainly a rule that goes in the right direction. In CC though the Germans are the ones attacking for the most part but with this rule, you tend to have less of this phenomenon where all the arty on the map lands together in the same spot at once, so that's good.
 
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Rick McKown
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Cross-posted from TCS forum on CSW:

Tanks & Arty

Although arty can be an effective tank killer when it connects, I think there are some significants issues relating to the "connecting" part that make arty a rather "iffy" proposition and therefore need to be kept in mind in analyzing the impact of arty on armour in the game.

Given the situation Olivier has described, where the tanks have taken position to fire an SFA, if the owning player is wise those tanks will keep their distance from any potential observers (as per 11.1e they can use Area Fire at twice their nominal range, so at least 8 hexes, usually more). If the observer is 7+ hexes distant then even the German player (unless on a PD Op Sheet) will be rolling for arty adjustment on the "8" column at best (the Soviets on the "6"), in which case we're talking 10/36 for Good Shoot, 12/36 for Bad Shoot, 5/36 for Scatter and 9/36 for No Shoot, meaning only 61% probability that the Barrage will land where you intended, and over half the time that it does land there it'll be a Bad Shoot, which adds another -1 to the Arty Point Fire Table--and the player owning the tanks will know whether it's a Good Shoot or not, as well as whether it's FF or regular HE, before he has to decide to flip the tanks into Move Mode, so he could choose to take his chances on 11+ if that SFA is worth the risk. Of course the Arty Point Fire Table only effects the Attack Zone, so a Battery Barrage will only affect one hex (and as we saw, when adjusting on the "8" column there's a 39% probability that the Barrage WON'T land in the intended hex, which increases to 50% for the Soviets rolling on the "6" column). Battalion Barrages may be an option, in which case the Attack Zone is much larger, but now you're burning off three BFs of ammo per attack and still have a 32% probability on the "8" column of not hitting the centre hex, and in most games arty ammo supply is limited.

So while arty can do serious damage to armour, the probability of all the ducks lining up properly to make that happen is still rather low.

Rick
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olivier R
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Yes you are right there are several ways to skin a cat. Most of the scenarios with tanks that I have played so far have been either at night or with limited visibility due to snow. So that wasn't an option but I agree staying back is an option.

The situation I described mostly applies to the attacker though, so the probabilities are going to be higher because the defender is likely be on a prepared defense op sheet. Besides, to root out entrenched defenders you will need all the help you can get, so firing at a 7+ range will add another -2 fire modifier on top on the dug in penalty. And that implies that the infantry pushes forward on its own without tank cover.

Anyway yes that's a factor too you are right. But all in all it doesn't help all that much. Especially in GD'42 with the tanks being unable to pool their firepower together unless they're in the same hex.
 
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