Cyrano De Bergerac
msg tools
mb
Hi all

I have the basegame and I'd like to buy an expansion. However, I'm not sure which one to buy, and it seems Daybreak is either the least broken of them, or the one that fix a lot of previous expansions issues.

If I look in terms of components:

Better than both expansions
Characters: Daybreak got 8, Exodus and Pegasus 4
Cylon leaders: Daybreak got 4, Pegasus got 3
Cylon Attack cards: Daybreak got 6 new cards (Pegasus got 3)
New ending: I don't really intend to play another ending than Kobol, but Earth seems like the most enjoyable alternative ending compared to NC and IB
Options: Pegasus has got Sympathetic Cylon, while Daybreak has Mutineers.
Treachery cards: Daybreak got 2 per color, Exodus 3
0 Skill cards: Daybreak got 26, Pegasus 26

Identical to another expansion, better than the other
Skill cards: Daybreak got 5 per color, Pegasus 5 and Exodus 4
0 Skill cards: Daybreak got 2 per color, Exodus 3
Crisis cards: Daybreak got 30 new cards (Exodus got 40 and Pegasus 20)

Disadvantages
Destinations: Daybreak got no new card (Exodus got 7 and Pegasus 5)
Quorum cards: Daybreak got no new card (Exodus got 3 and Pegasus 9)
Super Crisis cards: Daybreak got no new card (Exodus got 3 and Pegasus 5)
Loyalty cards: Exodus has got conflicted loyalties to spice up the game
Components: Pegasus's got Pegasus, Exodus's got the CFB, and Daybreak's got the Demetrius when playing Earth. The CFB is here clearly the main advantage of Exodus over Pegasus and Daybreak
Plastic figures and overlays: don't really mind...

What do you think?
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Samual Grieve
United Kingdom
Newport
Isle of Wight
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Our groups first expansion was Daybreak and we all agree that even after adding the others Daybreak was the one that bought the most to our games. Highly reccomended.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
SoCal
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Hate to break it to you, but the Missions for the Earth objective are mini-games of sorts.

I wouldn't compare Symp-Cylon and Mutr. to Conflicted Loyalties. Sure, they're all Loyalty cards, but the latter most is an option to spice things up and give humans more challenge, while the other 2 are used in 4p or 6p games.

For "Treachery Cards", I think you meant 0-str skill cards. Daybreak ones are more involving, but many of them require you to soft reveal if you're a cylon. The Exodus ones you can slip in and let them run their course since there are no decision points (for the most part) to be made by the current player.

Some folks don't care about new cards, although if you're hungry for expansions, I could see having new Qcards, Dcards, SC cards, and Loyalty cards as a "must have".

If you haven't already, check out the Battlestar Galactica: The Board Game game page description for a comparisons table by feature.

You left out CFB. I enjoy playing that majority of the time, and don't mind switching back to CAC. Both have their strength and weaknesses that'll likely require house rules to make "perfect".

I still like Daybreak b/c it's the "cult of the new" (apparently, this is actually a derogatory board game term). Despite that bias, it still stands on its own. Mutr., Mcards, Motives, the SKILL CHECK skill cards, and some of the other concepts will be more difficult to explain, but at least you don't need to worry about executions (not that they were that bad either).
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pasi Ojala
Finland
Tampere
flag msg tools
Get the Imperial Assault Campaign module for Vassal from http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/Module:Star_Wars:_Imperial_Assault
badge
The next Total Solar Eclipse holiday in 2024 in USA? See you there!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Cyrano77 wrote:
What do you think?

It so much depends on your group's play style and whether you have some nagging things in the game that you would like to change.

Daybreak provides Cylon Leader Motives. Now you don't need to have 5 player anymore, you can play with 4. There are very nice new skill cards too, treachery gives more power to unrevealed cylons (and chance). The Mutiny cards also mix up the game. Earth gives more things to do during the game, but it depends on your group how much it actually changes the gameplay.

If you hate that pilots are virtually useless, try Cylon Fleet Board. If you like to struggle for power amongst human players, then do not add CFB. There are also good skill cards and crisis in Exodus, and if you add Conflicted Loyalties, looking at loyalties and finishing with 1 or any resource becomes risky. Ionian Nebula is ok if you play with 3 or 4, otherwise the fiddlyness takes over the gameplay.

Pegasus provides plastic basestars and a 'damage sponge'. How much the locations on Pegasus are used depends on your group. Cylon Leader Agendas do not really work. New Caprica changes the game alot, but it may be what you want. Pegasus is the expansion which has the most obsoleted components when you add Exodus and/or Daybreak.

I think Daybreak is overall the one that provides incremental improvements to a lot of areas, but depending on your group there are a lot of pieces in the other expansions that you either could add to have more variance, or because they fix some small or big issues your group has with the game.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Yoki Erdtman
Sweden
Södertälje
flag msg tools
badge
Handsome devil huh?
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
a1bert wrote:
It so much depends on your group's play style and whether you have some nagging things in the game that you would like to change.

I loved this post of yours Pasi. Have you perhaps written a longer and more in depth article on the various modules and new items in each expansion, and how they impact and change the base game?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pasi Ojala
Finland
Tampere
flag msg tools
Get the Imperial Assault Campaign module for Vassal from http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/Module:Star_Wars:_Imperial_Assault
badge
The next Total Solar Eclipse holiday in 2024 in USA? See you there!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Yokiboy wrote:
I loved this post of yours Pasi. Have you perhaps written a longer and more in depth article on the various modules and new items in each expansion, and how they impact and change the base game?

Thanks. I don't have anything prepared, I just have observations about how the different bits have affected our group's journey with the game, and some speculation what would happen in our group if the bits were different.

BSG is the best when you start playing it as a regular or semi-regular group. Learning the rules and the strategies that you want to use is an organic thing. What kind of players you are dictates what kind of experience it becomes.

(The following is all my speculation and exaggeration. Normal groups and players fall somewhere between the extremes.)

For winning-focused players the game becomes the search for the optimal strategy, and then the available bits affect a lot how the game turns out. These groups may converge to the optimal strategy so well, that any deviation means a trip to the brig. You get early reveals, or late reveals from cylons, depending on which endgame you have. The dullness and fewness of cylon options in the base game favors late reveals and fighting for power, while Cylon Fleet Board is accused of encouraging early reveals for maximum effect, and New Caprica encourages late reveals as admiral, and makes it a good idea to execute the admiral before reaching the end game (post-sleeper execution is a sure loyalty check with Pegasus). You need to keep adding new things to make the game interesting, or you need conflict such as Personal Goals or Mutiny to mix up the game and prevent there ever being an optimal strategy.

For experience-focused players the game will be different. You strive for tight and epic wins, and there is a lot more room for trying different strategies. If you have a lot of added stuff, all decks, the skill card decks in particular are diluted, so you are never sure which cards you'll get. This creates a different game every time, and thus you need a lot of tactical thinking to further the overall strategy. You can not have only one favorite way to play the game, because different things happen in different games.

The addition of Cylon Leader mixes up the game even more, because CL generally wants to keep the game balanced until sleeper to have the best chances with the Motives they receive at sleeper. Then it is upto chance what proportion of human and cylon allegiance motives they have. With 2 + 2, which side wins can be upto the last few turns. (We have been fairly lucky with this, but you can also stack the deck in any way you like. For example CL gets one allegience each at the beginning and two random ones at sleeper.) It is easier to play CL in 4-player games than with more players, because you'll have more turns and possibly you get XO's too. So, the more players, the more challenge playing as CL will offer.

How you like to play and keep changing the game really is upto your group.

My advice is to play and experience, and keep trying new things and let no-one tell your group how the game should be played (not even me).



4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Cyrano De Bergerac
msg tools
mb
a1bert wrote:
Pegasus is the expansion which has the most obsoleted components when you add Exodus and/or Daybreak.


That's my main worry. I'll probably end up buying all of the expansions one day (I've played with all expansions 3 or 4 of times within our gaming group, but I'm now introducing this game to friends & family), but I really want to make sure the first one is going to add incremental bits everywhere.

I've read the Cylon leaders with motives are better than Cylon leaders with agendas (this would work kinda like a "fix" to Pegasus). Also that the Treachery cards for DB need to "replace" the ones from Pegasus. All in all, I don't think this Pegasus sponge is interesting enough to make me buy Pegasus over Daybreak.

ackmundial wrote:

You left out CFB. I enjoy playing that majority of the time, and don't mind switching back to CAC. Both have their strength and weaknesses that'll likely require house rules to make "perfect"

You're right, I forgot to mention those (message was amended). When comparing to Exodus, CFB is actually something really cool, we don't need it right now in my group, but that's definitely a reason why I'm hesitating between Exodus and Daybreak.

However Daybreak's got the treachery cards, Cylon Leaders and Muteeners that Exodus doesn't have. And both of them contain 0 skill checks. The only thing it has more, besides the CFB, are the conflicted loyalties (and qcards, dcards, sccards of course...), but don't seem enough to compensate for new Treachery system & new 4p/6p systems (Mutineers/Cylon Leaders)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tables
United Kingdom
Coventry
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm not sure what you mean by modules, but if you mean optional components you can choose to add or not/select one of many from, then your list seems really off. Ignoring things contingent on an endgame condition (meaning New Caprica, Ionian Neubla and Earth, which are modules but you've listed separately), Pegasus has Cylon Leaders, as does Daybreak. Exodus also has the Cylon Fleet, while Conflicted Loyalties is two modules in itself (Final Five and Personal Goals) which you can use either, both or neither of. For Daybreak, as best I understand it, the Mutineer/Mutiny isn't a separate module, but something that is core to Daybreak games. The Mutineer won't be in every game, because it's player count dependent, but in Daybreak games as far as I know you don't really get a choice of using it.

Anyway, just throwing that information out in case it affects your decision. I haven't played Daybreak yet, so I can't comment too much on it.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
SoCal
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Some of the stuff you're missing from Pegasus with Daybreak
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/1162728/reasons-to-inclu...

Another thing is the expansions don't really cover everything in-breadth. Instead, each one adds something different, so it's really not possible to just pick only one exp and have a wide variety of new things.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kwijiboe
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Base. GAME.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Cyrano77 wrote:
Hi all

I have the basegame and I'd like to buy an expansion. However, I'm not sure which one to buy, and it seems Daybreak is either the least broken of them, or the one that fix a lot of previous expansions issues.

If I look in terms of components:

Better than both expansions
Characters: Daybreak got 8, Exodus and Pegasus 4
Cylon leaders: Daybreak got 4, Pegasus got 3
Cylon Attack cards: Daybreak got 6 new cards (Pegasus got 3)
New ending: I don't really intend to play another ending than Kobol, but Earth seems like the most enjoyable alternative ending (NC and IB are not very attractive, and look like mini games)
Modules: Pegasus got Sympathetic Cylon, Exodus got conflicted loyalties, and Daybreak got Mutineers
Treachery cards: Daybreak got 2 per color, Exodus 3 (I've heard they were better)
0 Skill cards: Daybreak got 26, Pegasus 26 (I've heard they were better)

Identical to another expansion, better than the other
Skill cards: Daybreak got 5 per color, Pegasus 5 and Exodus 4
0 Skill cards: Daybreak got 2 per color, Exodus 3
Crisis cards: Daybreak got 30 new cards (Exodus got 40 and Pegasus 20)

Disadvantages
Destinations: Daybreak got no new card (Exodus got 7 and Pegasus 5)
Quorum cards: Daybreak got no new card (Exodus got 3 and Pegasus 9)
Super Crisis Cards: Daybreak got no new card (Exodus got 3 and Pegasus 5)

Differences
Plastic figures and overlays: don't really care
Components: Pegasus's got Pegasus, Exodus's got the CFB, and Daybreak's got the Demetrius when playing Earth

What do you think?


Daybreak adds the least to the Base Game. However, nearly everything added is an improvement on the Base Game.

Every expansion offers a new end-game objective to replace Kobol. In my view, each one is lacking. If you're interested in different end-game objectives, Daybreak is the one to get. Although, Earth is not without it's problems.

In my view, Pegasus attempted to make the game more thematic by adding the New Caprica objective. In my opinion, many of the new characters, cards, mechanics were created with New Caprica in mind. For example, nearly every character from Pegasus has execution in their character sheet: the game actively wants you to murder everyone on the crew until you find out who is loyal and who is not. If a undercover Cylon sneaks into New Caprica and manages to get the Admiralty (Ellen's OPG seems to have this in mind), the game can be ended prematurely. Therefore, execution becomes crucial to determine players loyalty to avoid the nasty consequences of the Admiralty falling into someone's hands you do not trust. If you play a game with all of the Pegasus characters, you'll see that the game is egging you on to kill your neighbors: Cain can kill someone if the Brig check is high enough, otherwise there's the airlock, or you can wait until New Caprica and use Resistance HQ for discounted executions, and enough people die Dee will decide to jump in and join them. The downside is, once a human is executed you will know with 100% certainty who is/is not a Cylon. This, in my opinion, deviates much too far from the base game and makes the Pegasus expansion a "skip" for your first expansion acquisition.

[It is worth getting Pegasus eventually however, because of the Investigative Committees and Plastic Basestars. Although, most of the remaining content can be skipped because Daybreak does it better. "It" being Cylon leaders and treachery.]

Exodus, realizing that Executions can result in 100% certainty regarding who is/is not a cylon introduced the +1 loyalty deck mechanism. When you build the Loyalty deck, you add an additional you are not a cylon card. Therefore, at any given time, the loyalty deck will have "+1" loyalty card. When someone is executed, you add a card from the "You are not a Cylon" deck into the constructed loyalty deck and shuffle the cards together. Therefore, it's possible that an execution can result in someone coming back as a Cylon. Although, that can lead to some games where the remaining card is a "You are a Cylon" card resulting in one Cylon going it alone.

Exodus also implements the Cylon Fleet Board. It largely fixes the problem with the base game: that pilots are bored when there are no Cylon ships on the base board. This may be worth looking into if that's something you're interested in. For my tastes, I think the Cylon Fleet board takes away more from the game than what it adds.

Finally, Exodus adds a new end-game Ionian Nebula objective: which toys around with the execution mechanic and adds player elimination to the game. In contrast to Pegasus, in Exodus it is slightly more difficult to kill your neighbor (unless you choose the Cally character). The reason is because none of the characters have execution in their skillset and Pegasus' airlock isn't available. In Exodus, executions just sort of happen on their own when playing with the Ionian Nebula objective. (Some crisis cards do have Execution as a mechanic however, but its not as easy to execute someone when comparing it to Pegasus' execution fest). You draw from a supply of tokens and if you draw a "disaster" token, you are summarily executed. Its thematically interesting to see characters leave a game, and new characters come into the game from the execution. However, I've always found the execution mechanic to favor theme over gameplay: It's enough for me to leave it out.

[The only reason to really get this expansion is the Fleet Board. The new characters are either overpowered (Tory, Cally) or have extremely uninspired character traits/abilities (Anders, Gaeta). The skill cards also present some large problems: just take a look at Political Prowess.]

If you like new characters, Daybreak is what you want. Not only does it include the most amount of characters, few of the added characters bring along problems. (Pegasus and Exodus' Cally, Cain, Tory, Anders, Gaeta, Ms. Tigh, Kat, and Dee either dominate or detract from games they are present in).

Daybreak also has some of the best balanced skill cards in the game, in my opinion. People have pointed out that there is problems with some cards, such as: "Change of Plans: Instead of the resulting the pass effect, all human players draw 2 skill cards." This card is great to prevent a brigging, or deny players a beneficial positive effect. It is offset by providing players with cards to brig you next turn anyway. Also, it's not used to guarantee the fleet loses something (such as forcing a fail result: See Political Prowess used on an Airlock check), it's only denying that the fleet gain its benefit. Therefore, it's not really worth the spike. Change of Plans shouldn't be hoarded, it should be used: for its effect if human, and for spiking when Cylon.

Finally, while most people here on the forums mix all expansions together: I highly highly highly recommend that you do not for (countless) reasons.

1. The most important reason is because it makes the game way too swingy. There's a reason each expansion offers a limited amount of skill cards to the base set:

Take Exodus for example, it provides 1 6-strength card, and 3 0-strength skill cards. The reason is to offset the amount of high cards available in the skill decks.

With all expansions added to the game, there are 3-5's and a 6 in each and every deck. This makes some skillchecks so absurdly swingy.

2. Everything becomes diluted. (Pegasus and Exodus add cards to each and every deck of the Base Game. Daybreak only adds to the Crisis deck.) With dilution, the game is no longer a strategy game, the game becomes tactical. There are pros and cons to this, and I admit: your playstyle may prefer tactical over strategic setups.

Strategic games, in my mind, are fun to play because you can always get better at them. Tactical games are fun to play because they are always different.

When I finish a game of Battlestar Galactica/Daybreak, I like to think: "Man, what could I have done better."

After finishing a game with all expansions, I leave the game thinking: "Man, I wish I had drawn that card."

To me, that's a world of a difference.

TL;DR. Get Daybreak first. Experiment with Exodus, follow up with Pegasus. Play expansions separately to get a feel for each and guage whether you like the mechanics they add to the game. Avoid the temptation to mix everything together, if you can.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
SoCal
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Characters often make use of mechanics in a set.
For Daybreak, nuZarek is very heavily centered around Mutiny, with Apollo also having a hand there. Cultar's just plain awful. I do enjoy the CL, although D'Anna is too unconventional, while Simon is a huge boon for humans if he's aiming for a pro-human approach.


As far as drawing powerful cards go, I've seen people hunt for Arrest Order, Presidential Pardon, or Authorization Of Brutal Force as a hail mary. Even where cylons wait for a powerplay that never comes. Even though there are other avenues to for power plays in expansions, one should always be careful that it doesn't consume you.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kwijiboe
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Base. GAME.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
ackmondual wrote:
Characters often make use of mechanics in a set.
For Daybreak, nuZarek is very heavily centered around Mutiny, with Apollo also having a hand there. Cultar's just plain awful. I do enjoy the CL, although D'Anna is too unconventional, while Simon is a huge boon for humans if he's aiming for a pro-human approach.

As far as drawing powerful cards go, I've seen people hunt for Arrest Order, Presidential Pardon, or Authorization Of Brutal Force as a hail mary. Even where cylons wait for a powerplay that never comes. Even though there are other avenues to for power plays in expansions, one should always be careful that it doesn't consume you.


While Cultar has been panned because he frustrates players by stealing their miracle tokens, but I believe it was a design choice to make OPGs less powerful and replenishible in order to encourage early and repeated uses. You see this with many of the new character's OPG: they're not as strong as previous iterations. To me, this is a good thing because I rarely see most OPGs used.

For example, NuPollo should probably use his OPG when faced with President/Admiral chooses crises that have a guaranteed resource loss. However, most people have been conditioned to never use their OPG: instead, they wait until there's no other options left. (This results in the OPGs never being used).

For the most part, you're absolutely right that characters often make use of mechanics from the expansion they're included in. There is a difference, however, in mechanics included on the skill sheet ("Draw Mutiny" or "Draw Treachery") and the intended uses for the character. For example, Ellen Tigh has treachery on her sheet, but she was designed for a specific purpose (more on that in a bit).

In contrast to Daybreak, I believe many of the characters and the execution mechanics in the Pegasus expansion were specifically designed/built for use exclusively in New Caprica. (An objective most people have never even played). Without New Caprica, they either fall flat or are made too powerful. The biggest offender by far is Helena Cain. (We'll talk about her first).

Generally, New Caprica encourages players to play nice. Everyone is going to be smiling and no one will feel bad about helping Galactica along to New Caprica. There are no soft reveals in Pegasus: if you do soft reveal, you will likely be air locked. Ultimately, if you are a Cylon: you want to get to New Caprica and you want to get a hold of the Admiralty.

Subsequently, Cain was built for two reasons: she automatically gets a hold of the admiralty and she arguably has the most-pro human abilities in the entire game. If Cain is a Cylon, she should be extremely helpful to the human cause to avoid suspicion so that she may hold onto her admiralty: because once Galactica returns to orbit, she can immediately order the ship to jump and end the game.

(Cain's weakness makes more sense under this context as well: a Cylon Cain wants to FTL jump the ship to lose population since her character can potentially destroy nearly every civilian ship in the game. The same EXACT reasoning exists for the engine room, a Cylon Cain cannot quicken the pace at which Galactica returns to orbit through the use of the engine room: she can, however, scout. Remember, a Cylon Cain will want to jump Galactica as soon as Galactica reaches orbit. Outside of the New Caprica context, Cain's weakness makes no sense.Conclusion: Cain's weaknesses are only weaknesses if Cain happens to be a Cylon. If not playing with New Caprica, Cain has no downside whatsoever. She should probably not be allowed to be chosen if New Caprica is not in play.)

WITHOUT New Caprica, Cain (cylon) players are ultimately forced to be pro-human when they don't necessarily want to be: "Why aren't you using your Blind Jump OPG, Cain?" Therefore, without New Caprica, Cain's character abilities do not make as much sense. You either use her OPG right away, or you make up a (bad) reason to hold onto it for later. (This has led to countless houserules/bans/frustrations with this character, but the real problem was that Cain was not designed for Kobol. I don't believe many players realize this, as a consequence, she's been breaking your BSG games for years.)

Next, let's look at Ellen Tigh. Many people look at her OPG, and think to themselves: "This OPG is far too situational. What can I get out of being the President or the Admiral for only one turn." Again, look to New Caprica: If Ellen is a Cylon, she can force jump the ship once Galactica is in orbit. Alternatively, if Ellen is Human she can take the Presidency to see if she can Brig the Admiral to shift the title. This is what her OPG was designed for. In addition, Ellen serves another purpose: putting Pegasus' Treachery deck into human's hands early.

If you find yourself on New Caprica with no revealed Cylons, you're going to think to yourself: "Holy crap, we better make sure the Admiral is a human." Subsequently, you activate Resistance HQ and kill that character with a low skill check of 7! You will want to use this opportunity to kill the Admiral before Galactica returns to orbit no matter how nice that player has been: looking at you, Cain."

"Now that Cain is dead, crap, can we trust the new Admiral? Nope. We had better kill him, too." If executions get out of control, Dee will then execute herself.

Then there's Kat, who was likely designed to be an efficient means of killing off Occupation forces: however, she's forced to move each turn to avoid going to sickbay which nerfs her effectiveness when it comes to killing them.

Now take away all of New Caprica. These characters make much less sense. Their OPGs, traits and weaknesses seem out of place. Consequently, they make out as worse characters in games where New Caprica is not the objective. Playing with these characters outside of New Caprica makes a worse experience.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark L
Singapore
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mb
I really don't see how you can claim that "there are no soft reveals" once the execution mechanic is in place. Just... look at the PBF games and see for yourself.

The Pegasus characters are about as well-designed whether you go to New Caprica or to Kobol, i.e. Cain is broken regardless, and the other three characters are possibly the best-designed expansion characters of the lot. OK, Ellen's OPG is broken with New Caprica, but that's an inherent role of the Admiralty in New Caprica, not Ellen's OPG. Surely, Brigging the Admiral is good if he's on the other team, no matter where you're going. Surely taking the Admiralty and then jumping on -3 is good as a soft-reveal no matter where you're going.

"If executions get out of control, Dee will execute herself" is really poor logic. New Caprica does not see significantly more executions than Kobol - rather, New Caprica encourages you to execute one person and one person only - the Admiral. Since the confirmed human can retain the Admiralty by picking Adama/Cain, there is absolutely no need to execute a second player. Yes, it's a broken mechanic and a broken endgame, but claiming that Dee's abilities "make much less sense" outside of New Caprica is absurd. The same goes for Kat, whose Hotshot ability is clearly intended for Pegasus CIC/Main Batteries, and whose OPG literally does nothing on New Caprica.


On another note, the Daybreak characters are on the whole terribly designed. They have poor OPGs simply to justify Cultar stealing them, and their OPTs are therefore made absurd to make them viable characters. This leads to very, very overpowered characters (New Zarek is nearly as broken as Cain with the Mutineer in play) and very, very boring ones (Cottle lol). Players like good OPGs. It is no surprise that Boomer remains a popular character despite her crippling drawback, simply because she has the best OPG of the original 10.

To break it down:
Overpowered - New Zarek, Lee, Hoshi, New Helo
Uninspired - Cottle, Hot Dog
WTF? - Cultar

So I'll give you Lampkin. Cain aside, the Pegasus characters are at least on Lampkin's level of character design.


Daybreak is my favourite expansion, and I believe the best of the lot, but making it sound like it doesn't have strange design choices is a huge exaggeration. The absurd number of Crises with bad PASS effects just to make Change of Plans better than it already is is the most glaring offender. Assault Raptors also seem like a strange addition under the current rules - they should really not be strictly better Vipers but rather a strategic choice. (Also, Earth... but that's a separate article on its own, really.)
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
SoCal
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Ellen's OPG use it before you jump to pick the Destination yourself. If you're cylon, pick a bad Dcard that will kill them on fuel. Otherwise, you pick something if you have any doubt about the current admiral. Again, if you doubt the admiral, or no1 seems to have XOs to XO him in time to use nukes, then borrow the admiral to launch nukes at basestars yourself.
For taking president, if you know the state of the hand of Qcards b/c you were formerly the president, you trust the former president, or want to verify for yourself, then borrow the president title to access the Qcards. You can even play something useful like a Pres. Pardon, Arrest Order, or Inspirational Speech that the other president normally wouldn't.

If people know what NC's about, then there's no way they'll ever let her get to the point of letting her use an action to order the final jump. As has been said on many threads discussing NC, you execute her via Resistance HQ before it gets to that.
Quote:
(Cain's weakness makes more sense under this context as well: a Cylon Cain wants to FTL jump the ship to lose population since her character can potentially destroy nearly every civilian ship in the game.
No... it's just her OPG that takes out 2 of them. Otherwise, she's just as proficient as anyone else in destroying civvies. Well, if there's something I missed about Cain and taking down civvies, then please share!

Quote:
The same EXACT reasoning exists for the engine room, a Cylon Cain cannot quicken the pace at which Galactica returns to orbit through the use of the engine room: she can, however, scout.
No1 else can either... when you're on NC, ER is no longer available. As a human, she can activate Breeders Canyon just like any other human to push up the jump prep marker to push for the 2 fleets' return quicker.

Quote:
Remember, a Cylon Cain will want to jump Galactica as soon as Galactica reaches orbit. Outside of the New Caprica context, Cain's weakness makes no sense.Conclusion: Cain's weaknesses are only weaknesses if Cain happens to be a Cylon. If not playing with New Caprica, Cain has no downside whatsoever. She should probably not be allowed to be chosen if New Caprica is not in play.)[/I]
Cain can't use ER and FTL Control. If she doesn't draw an XO, then that most certainly won't be an option. That can also be a anti-human thing. If anything else, she has NO weaknesses on NC since there's no Engine Room nor FTL Control.

For Kat, that's just for balance. Are we going to denounce Hoshi because he's got such a crippling weakness too? No, something's gotta counter his better special.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Cyrano De Bergerac
msg tools
mb
Thanks all, I think your messages have comforted me with my view. I'll have more by buying Daybreak than the other expansions. Later, I'll most probably buy Exodus for the CBF, and maybe even later Pegasus to get the whole set of cards
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.