Jared Misner
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This is a project we are designing as a kickstarter release in the late fall sometime. Please keep that in mind as you continue reading.

Quick explanation of the game
Duel of the Magi is a board game that incorporates strategic deck building and drafting combined with dueling elements of popular TCG's. Players start by first choosing a class, then they choose specific sets of spells to be included or excluded in the game. Cards of each spell type are shuffled together, and then placed on the deck building board. Staged face-up cards can be selected one at a time from the board as each player builds out their own customized deck of spells. Once deck building is complete, the game board is flipped over to the dueling side, and players engage in a spell casting fight to the death to determine the winner.


A list of the game rules can be found here:

http://www.megafileupload.com/en/file/526503/Duel-of-the-Mag...

Here is the spell listing:

http://www.megafileupload.com/en/file/526504/Duel-of-the-Mag...

The game is still in play testing stages right now. I have a graphic designer working on the card frames and game board design. I wanted to get this put up on the site for any suggestions and/or feedback.

A few questions i'd like answered specifically:

- Are any of the rules confusing? Where should I elaborate?
- Does the order for drafting/selecting spells seem fair?
- Do the spell names come across as epic spells you would have fun casting?
- Does any of the wording on the spells confuse you?
- Would a short story describing the scenario of the game get you more excited before diving right into the rules?
- How much would you pay for a game like this?
- What other concerns would you have backing a kickstarter project like this?
- What kind of stretch goals and rewards would you be excited to see for a game like this?

I have an artist that has already completed some of the artwork which i'll show here:

The Gameboard:


Spell (Electrocute):


Spell (Gorvax the First Dragon, and Deny):


Again, any and all feedback is welcome on the game. I'm looking for outside the box ways I might be able to change this up, or just overall what you like and/or don't like.

Thanks in advance everyone, looking forward to your questions/comments.
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Benj Davis
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I'd recommend converting your files into PDFs. I, for one, can't open these.
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Jared Misner
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No problem:

Rules:

http://megafileupload.com/en/file/526521/Duel-of-the-Magi-pd...

Spell Listing:

http://megafileupload.com/en/file/526520/Duel-of-the-Magi-ve...
 
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Jared Misner
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I've received some feedback via PM, and from the previous thread this was on, but I'm definitely looking for more.

Here are some specific questions I have that I'm looking for answers/feedback from you guys on.

- Are any of the rules confusing? Where should I elaborate?
- Does the order for drafting/selecting spells seem fair?
- Do the spell names come across as epic spells you would have fun casting?
- Does any of the wording on the spells confuse you?
- Would a short story describing the scenario of the game get you more excited before diving right into the rules?
- How much would you pay for a game like this?
- What other concerns would you have backing a kickstarter project like this?
- What kind of stretch goals and rewards would you be excited to see for a game like this?

 
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Paul Nicholas
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I feel like the lack of feedback is a result of you posting a WIP in the game design forum instead of the WIP forum. Personally, I don't care. But I've noticed this community is quite adamant about adhering to structure.

As for your actual game, it's really late here at the moment so I don't have the time to look over your rulebook. But just reading your description I don't see what makes this different from any other deckbuilder. What makes it unique? Is it the fact you fight each other afterwards? Isn't that just drafting then if you're not playing your cards as you acquire new ones?

With your current title and theme you're inevitably going to be compared to Mage Wars. And your gameplay doesn't seem to sound that drastically different from it either.

All that being said, I haven't read the rules yet. This is just my impression from your brief description.

And your artwork looks absolutely stunning.

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Jared Misner
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Thanks Paul, it is definitely drafting to build the deck rather than a deck builder where you are playing cards as you acquire them like you said. Different from Mage wars because there is no area movement to attack or cast spells, and the decks are limited to fourty cards as opposed to a full book of spells. Much more focus on strategic deckbuilding to deal with the other players' drafting strategy as it's happening. This also plays much quicker and is still vastly replayable. It is built around multiplayer games as well as just two player games.

Would an Admin mind moving this to the appropriate section of the forums? I'd appreciate it. I've seen other WIP's in this section and that was why I posted it here.
 
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Paul Nicholas
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Most of those were posted here before the WIP forum existed.

Okay, so I finally got round to reading your instructions. I think you should really consider switching to a different host site. The fact it made me wait 30 seconds before I could download the files is going to turn a lot of people off. Most people would see the timer and just go 'meh, screw this' and click X. You don't want to put any roadblocks of any kind in front of people trying to help you.

Secondly, I was wrong. It's not similar to Mage Wars. You draft spells and creatures that require 'energy' and then fight other players with a total of 20 HP each. First player to flatten a player's health is the winner.

Can you explain to me how this isn't M:TG?
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Jared Misner
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mrninjit wrote:
Most of those were posted here before the WIP forum existed.

Okay, so I finally got round to reading your instructions. I think you should really consider switching to a different host site. The fact it made me wait 30 seconds before I could download the files is going to turn a lot of people off. Most people would see the timer and just go 'meh, screw this' and click X. You don't want to put any roadblocks of any kind in front of people trying to help you.

Secondly, I was wrong. It's not similar to Mage Wars. You draft spells and creatures that require 'energy' and then fight other players with a total of 20 HP each. First player to flatten a player's health is the winner.

Can you explain to me how this isn't M:TG?


This is different from MTG because it alleviates the pain of having to invest tons of money buying booster packs to trade or acquire the cards necessary to build a competitive deck. Every spell you need to play the game is included. The game also only uses 40 unique spells, and even though there are some pretty complex card combinations you can build, there is not a huge learning curve or massive card knowledge needed to be able to pick the game up and start playing quickly. Another advantage is all of the spells included have significant capabilities instead of "filler" cards like some MTG uses in it's sets. Think of these cards all as "rares" or "mythic rares".

It's not similar to booster drafts either. Rather than a timely and costly investment of booster pack after booster pack to do drafts, you get every spell you need the second you buy the game. The winners of a booster draft usually still revolve around a combination of the most powerful cards that a player may or may not have had line of sight to. The concept here is Duel of the Magi focuses more on card neutrality so the winner of the game is who devises the best strategy of deck building, combined with card play instead. Each player also knows what the other player is drafting rather than blind drafting like you do in MTG. There aren't any tricks or hidden spells someone has to prepare for, because they see every card as it's picked and know for the most part what each player is building their deck around.

It's also designed to play quickly once the drafting is complete. You're not going to have hour long matches with stalemates like some MTG drafts and matches have.

Do you have another site you can recommend to upload the files? I don't have any problem doing that.
 
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Paul Nicholas
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I still think you'll be hard pressed convincing people to play your game over Magic if your main offering is - 'it's cheaper and easier to pick up'. Magic has been around for that long now that most people know all the fundamentals of how to play. As for cheapness, the game doesn't revolve solely around booster drafts. I still 'play' Magic regularly because one of my mates owns a cube, and we just use the cards from that. No money spent ever and still delivers tons of fun and replayability.

What you need is a unique mechanic that totally separates your game from Magic. Hearthstone have done this very well. So did Netrunner (and a lot of the other LCGs FFG has to offer).

As for websites, Dropbox is recommended.
 
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Jared Misner
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I really appreciate your feedback. Based on play testing and specifically asking testers about the gameplay after they finish they have all said they do not feel like they just finished playing a game of magic.

So you and your buddies who play magic usually do a multiplayer draft to build decks together to deal with each other's choices during drafting, or are you just playing with preaasembled decks already? That's entirely different which is why I'm asking.

This isn't really like magic, because there is no preaasembly and every game is going to be unique because every time new spells are picked, or different cards show up in the staging area at different times.

Each player is selecting a class card and building strategy around the class ability picking the spell that makes the most sense for their deck based on what the players before them just picked. I'm not sure what game of magic incorporates a theme you're drafting around, or where players are drafting the same spells of a limited quantity and type. So though you've compared it to magic, it doesn't play like a game of magic does. It's a much more unique way of drafting and then it plays completely different than magic because the spells don't work the same way as they do in magic and the turns work differently as well which makes strategy around playing similar but different. The uniqueness is the face to face drafting and deck building around the classes, then a turn structure that is dynamically different than how a game of magic is played. Not to mention it's designed as a multiplayer game though 1v1 is still playable. Most magic games are the opposite.

We have discussed and done some basic planning around an expansion that will team the mages up together to fight a large boss like an MMO raid as well. But that's of course only if the game ends up being successful. Aside from the many differentiations the game already has from Magic, this expansion will definitely make it even more different and provide many additional and new dynamics.

Here is the dropbox link, thanks for the suggestion:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/selh4ok3039li52/AAClo5z6Y4loSn7se...
 
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I really like the idea of creating a boardgame version of an MMO. Personally, I think you'd have more success if you focused on that.

I totally get where you're coming from, and it may very well play differently to Magic. What I'm saying is that, on paper, it seems incredibly similar to Magic. And a lot of other people will think the same.

Kickstarter has caused the indie market to explode. It is currently choc full of boardgames and the numbers are only rising. This has caused a 'window shopping effect' in backers. Meaning if you don't grab them in the first few seconds of reading your Kickstarter, they will move on.

The way you grab someone's attention is with something unique or something that stands out. I can tell you right now, by describing the game as you currently have, with the current name and artwork - people will gloss over your page, think it's a Magic clone, and move on.

It's kinda sad it's come to this but indie boardgames really have become a lot like pop songs now. If you don't have that hook, you'll be left and forgotten.

I'm sure your game is fantastically fun to play. But without that 'X Factor' (which I'm currently not seeing) you will be doomed to fail in the incredibly fierce and harsh market Kickstarter has become.
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Jared Misner
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We have discussed a few raid expansions actually. A gigantic dragon, another one is a sleeping god, and yet another is a horde of attacking zombies that the mages must deal with together as a team.

We have considered doing an initial expansion as a "stretch goal" if the project is funded.

In order to do the MMO type raid though, we need an additional 60 cards, which is doable, but it drives up the cost of the game.

I really do like the feedback there, and we have already been considering it, so maybe we look at what it costs to include the first expansion as an entry point to the game.

Again, all cool ideas, but without the core cards we're planning to include as the entry point, pointless by themselves.

The reality is the game is playable, with tons of replayability without the expansions, and because we want to keep costs low, we only planned the expansions for after the game is successful. Though I do hear you saying that could be the uniqueness the game needs to differentiate it even further.
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Liam
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Moved from Board Game Design to Board Game Design Works in Progress.
 
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Jared Misner
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My graphic designer is still working on the card frames and this is NOT the final revision, but in addition to looking for feedback on the game rules, spell listings, etc, I'd be open to feedback on the frames you see here, so we can possibly implement changes/mods based on the feedback received.

Here are the class cards:

 


Looking forward to hearing from you guys.
 
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Jared Misner
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My artist sent over another piece of artwork this morning. This will be turned into two spells actually. The first is Gorvax, the first dragon, and the second is the spell Deny.

Still looking for other feedback on the card frames/design and the answer to the questions I've posted. Would really like to know what others think about the project so far.

 
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Jared Misner
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Quite a few updates this time around. We made a "teaser" trailer for the game:

http://youtu.be/0vEQvDOofHU

We have another spell artwork complete

Thaumaturgic Rift



There have been quite a few updates to the spell listing and rules which can still be found at the dropbox, here:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/selh4ok3039li52/AACLu-A8dp-llpvuf...

Definitely still open to any/all feedback. Play testing has been going very well, feedback has been quite positive. Most updates now are minor tweaks and very few major changes to the game at this point.
 
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Jared Misner
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The game prototypes are on their way to game reviewers today!

I want to thank everyone who provided me with such awesome feedback during the whole process.

The game is going to continue to receive edits and modifications as play testing continues, even through the kickstarter launch, so if anyone has any additional feedback it is still welcomed.

Thank-you again to everyone who has helped us this far.
 
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Jared Misner
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We have added a how to play video part 1 which goes over the drafting and deck building portion of the game. It can be viewed here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwRkWJCFA_c
 
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