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Subject: Retail copy: missing, broken quests? rss

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THE QUESTION HAS BEEN RESOLVED. SCROLL DOWN FOR THE UPDATE.

So I'm looking for some confirmation. Are these quests actually not in the retail box, or am I just missing components? Missing quests highlighted in red, and denote a broken quest line.

Please see below, and maybe we can compare and contrast:

Drums of the Wold (C+)E Go Away Violently (???) E ??? E ??? E ???

Does anyone have the rest of this line in the retail box, or is this one of those that can't be finished until the expansions come out?

The Abbey's Coffers (A+) E A Common Laborer (???) E ??? E ??? E ???

Ditto

Rescue My Daughter (C+) (SUCCESS) E Lucy's Doll (C++) E Lucy's Troubles (C++) E The Darkness Within (???) E ???

Rescue My Daughter (C+) (SUCCESS) E Connor's Toy (???) E ??? E ???

Rescue My Daughter (C+) (FAILURE) E A Father's Grief (C++) E The Darkness Within (???) E ???

Okay, this one seems really bad, as it's easily one of the more interesting, branching quest lines. What happened?

The following seem to be fine, but I'm listing them for the sake of completeness and comparison. Does anything look off?

The Hand of Darkness (A)
Light The Fires (A)
The Two Fathers (A)
Stolen Treasure (C)
Get Tactical (C)
The Just-Okay Hunt (C)
A Desperate Act (C)
For Glory and Honor (C)
I Like My Odds (C)
Set The Trap (A+) E Bait and Switch (A++) E Cut Bait and Run (A++)
The Accidental Cure (C+) E Dr. Emberweave's Cure All (C++) E Counting Sheep (C++)

The Weaver's Need (C+) E Clear The Road (C++) E Going to The Chapel (C++) E The Red Wedding (A++)

The Weaver's Need line seems complete, but does it seem odd that this CQ leads into the resolution of an AQ?

All tolled, the base set appears to come with 9 stand alone quests, 3 complete quest lines, consisting of 10 cards, and 3 broken quest lines consisting of 6 cards that we have, and an indeterminate amount of cards that we don't in order to complete them. Any one care to compare and confirm?

--EDIT & UPDATE--
Symmetrical Docking wrote:
ShotgunLove wrote:
Can anyone, ANYONE, confirm whether I'm missing cards, or not?


Actually someone spectacular already made
http://boardgamegeek.com/article/15739970#15739970


It appears my card count is fine. There are indeed missing/withheld quest lines included in the retail box, with the intention of apparently being completed in later expansions. Personally, I'm not a fan of this business model, but for anyone that stumbled upon this post with a similar question, here's the deal, remove the following cards from your quest decks, and you'll be unaffected by the currently broken quests lines:

The Abbey's Coffers (A+)
Drums of the Wold (C+)
Rescue My Daughter (C+)
Lucy's Doll (C++)
Lucy's Troubles (C++)
A Father's Grief (C++)


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This is their way of making you want the expansions, which will continue those stories. It seems pretty underhanded to me, but it's not the thing that bothered me the most about this game (even though we still play it and still have fun). I'd rather have 1 or 2 complete movies than 15 free 1/2 hour previews.
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pinkymadigan wrote:
This is their way of making you want the expansions, which will continue those stories. It seems pretty underhanded to me, but it's not the thing that bothered me the most about this game (even though we still play it and still have fun). I'd rather have 1 or 2 complete movies than 15 free 1/2 hour previews.


So is it confirmed that these actually are not in the box? I'm not actually missing components?

I love the game, but this seems really low. I'm all for expansions, but you don't put pieces of a whole into a retail package (don't get me started on Yardu and the whole minis debacle). I've played two sessions, and it's happened twice that a quest went nowhere because of missing cards. I finally decided last night to inventory the cards and nail down what is and is not playable. Really annoying, as you inadvertently might notice details about the quests. Would have made a lot more sense to throw 10 in stand alone quests, and maybe two to four complete quest lines and call it a day, rather than have a number of quests that go nowhere.
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One mistake:
You don't add The Darkness Within if you succeed at Lucy's Troubles. That chain is actually complete if you succeed.

Also, note that success of Rescue My Daughter gives the option of Lucy's Doll OR Connor's Toy.
 
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mfaulk80 wrote:
One mistake:
You don't add The Darkness Within if you succeed at Lucy's Troubles. That chain is actually complete if you succeed.

Also, note that success of Rescue My Daughter gives the option of Lucy's Doll OR Connor's Toy.


Technically true, but there are FOUR possible outcomes for Rescue My Daughter, and all but the one you mention require that card. I can live without Connor's Toy, but withholding The Darkness Within is incredibly underhanded. There's really no excuse for this.
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ShotgunLove wrote:
mfaulk80 wrote:
One mistake:
You don't add The Darkness Within if you succeed at Lucy's Troubles. That chain is actually complete if you succeed.

Also, note that success of Rescue My Daughter gives the option of Lucy's Doll OR Connor's Toy.


Technically true, but there are FOUR possible outcomes for Rescue My Daughter, and all but the one you mention require that card. I can live without Connor's Toy, but withholding The Darkness Within is incredibly underhanded. There's really no excuse for this.

Fair enough. I was just pointing out a mistake in your post.

I'm curious how long the Darkness Within chain goes. If it's one card then it was really a silly decision not to include it. If it's a much longer chain, then it's at least something to think about....

(Also, a technicality, but only two of the outcomes for that quest chain require The Darkness Within. The third incomplete branch requires Connor's Toy. I know that wasn't the point of your reply, but just thought I'd clarify.)
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ShotgunLove wrote:

I love the game, but this seems really low. I'm all for expansions, but you don't put pieces of a whole into a retail package (don't get me started on Yardu and the whole minis debacle). I've played two sessions, and it's happened twice that a quest went nowhere because of missing cards. I finally decided last night to inventory the cards and nail down what is and is not playable. Really annoying, as you inadvertently might notice details about the quests. Would have made a lot more sense to throw 10 in stand alone quests, and maybe two to four complete quest lines and call it a day, rather than have a number of quests that go nowhere.


Yea, I think this was a misstep. Not even because I think it's underhanded (like Pinky), but because they didn't do it right.

Think of pretty much any fantasy series - it's not a single book. It's a series of novels with a continuing plot. I believe that's the feel they were going for.

However, since the game is pretty free-form, I think they didn't really capture what they were trying to. In order to make the fantasy series work, you need each book to have a self-contained plot, with a beginning-middle-end that makes sense, and have loose threads that promise to pick up in other places. That's what Myth is missing - a main plot to hold the first release together, so that only having parts of other stories feel like a promise of things to come instead of a half-finished story. Have each of those "dead-ending" quests give you something that you can use in the main quest, but have the villain get away, promising to show up again to harass the heroes.
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They really should have only included complete quests lines. I can do without more minis. Games Workshop has been making me buy units piecemeal for years. That's the price of investing in minis, but I've never seen a company so staggeringly give you partial components, if that is indeed the case, and not some packaging screw-up.

Still would like to know if anyone can confirm these card counts. Are they the same as everyone's retail copy, or is my retail box just hosed?
 
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ShotgunLove wrote:
mfaulk80 wrote:
One mistake:
You don't add The Darkness Within if you succeed at Lucy's Troubles. That chain is actually complete if you succeed.

Also, note that success of Rescue My Daughter gives the option of Lucy's Doll OR Connor's Toy.


Technically true, but there are FOUR possible outcomes for Rescue My Daughter, and all but the one you mention require that card. I can live without Connor's Toy, but withholding The Darkness Within is incredibly underhanded. There's really no excuse for this.


I really don't understand what the problem is here (aside from thinking you're missing pieces).
The only difference here is they already know how those quests will continue. I think it's a good thing that quests will continue to be expandedupon. If they only included complete chapter quest chains, then you'd have probably only 2 chains in there. And not having the whole chain right away in no way makes them unplayable. You start the adventure here, iflater down the road you decide to buy some expansion that will come out, you get to go back to that "story" and build on top of it.
The only thing that bugs me with this model is, if you choose to skip one ofthe expansion, and buy another one after that, you could have a hole in the chain, and that's bad.
Aside from that, and like I said earlier, the possible confusion of not knowing if you're missing some elements in the game, I think it's fine as is.
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MattShinners wrote:
That's what Myth is missing - a main plot to hold the first release together, so that only having parts of other stories feel like a promise of things to come instead of a half-finished story. Have each of those "dead-ending" quests give you something that you can use in the main quest, but have the villain get away, promising to show up again to harass the heroes.


I'm fine with no main, long term, over arching plot. Maybe an expansion? I actually like the free form aspect of the game; it's easily the most appealing hook for me.

I'm not fine with having quests in a retail box that go nowhere. Or, if you MUST have them in there as a taste of things to come, that's fine, just package separately in the retail box and label that the you need Expansion #?? to play. That would at least clarify this.
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ShotgunLove wrote:
[q="MattShinners"]
I'm not fine with having quests in a retail box that go nowhere. Or, if you MUST have them in there as a taste of things to come, that's fine, just package separately in the retail box and label that the you need Expansion #?? to play. That would at least clarify this.


I made a full thread about this

Yes, many quests chain to nowhere.

You'll also be pleased to know that there's not enough minis to do the Slaughterfield quests either. And the miniboss (while playable) has rules that interact with minis that aren't available.

I made that 15 quests were usable out of 30. That's half are unusable.

MCG made an absolute mess of this game. Terrible rulebook, a borked delivery of Wave 1 and 2, a retail box that's incomplete.

But MCG gets off lightly and has plenty of apologists. If FFG released a main set this bad then gamers would come after them with pitchforks.
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RemiBureau wrote:
And not having the whole chain right away in no way makes them unplayable. You start the adventure here, iflater down the road you decide to buy some expansion that will come out, you get to go back to that "story" and build on top of it.

Except that it brings a game to a screeching halt, as we soul crushingly realize that everything we just did is going nowhere.cry My group isn't going to remember where we left off in a quest line. Bad design.

I really hope they don't continue this model in future expansions. If the retail box broken quests don't resolve in the next expansion, or if new quests don't resolve in that expansion, but will in turn require the next expansion, I won't be drinking the Myth Kool Aid beyond the retail box. Mind you, I love expansion, but you have to give me a complete product.

RemiBureau wrote:
Aside from that, and like I said earlier, the possible confusion of not knowing if you're missing some elements in the game...

Biggest issue over-all. I just want a damned official card list at this point whistle
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Marcus the Ready wrote:

I made a full thread about this

Yes, many quests chain to nowhere.


Must have missed it. There's a lot of threads here

Marcus the Ready wrote:
You'll also be pleased to know that there's not enough minis to do the Slaughterfield quests either. And the miniboss (while playable) has rules that interact with minis that aren't available.


I got past this with proxies (standees of the art for those minis, printed on label paper and stuck to card board). A bit of work, but Slaugtherfield is doable. Also, I can forgive them this, somewhat. I view Myth as a minis game, designed to make you buy more minis. I can't forgive that they didn't give you enough to do the first few waves with what's in the box. I think that's 3 more minions of each type, and two more captains of each type.

Marcus the Ready wrote:
But MCG gets off lightly and has plenty of apologists. If FFG released a main set this bad then gamers would come after them with pitchforks.

I can forgive a lot with their logistic issues. FFG is a much bigger shop by comparison. This design issue though, has nothing to to with their size. shake
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ShotgunLove wrote:

I view Myth as a minis game, designed to make you buy more minis.


The problem with that is... you can't buy the extra minis.

I would have just sighed and forked out for the extra minis if so.

But they decided to release everything in two waves, and - wouldn't you know it! - the second wave has mysteriously disappeared.

Some people feel it was never produced in the first place, depending on how charitable to feel towards MegaCon.
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Generally, I think they quests were tacked on to the game overall. After all, when are you supposed to select the quest card, before or after you setup the tile?

After right?

Well why then do a lot of the chapter quests read like you're supposed to pick the tile afterwards?

I demoed the game at a con this last weekend, and first chapter quest we pulled, I start reading the card aloud, "'So-and-so runs up to you in the inn...'" I look at our graveyard tile and shake my head. "Sorry," I tell the guy who signed up for the event, "The thematic elements in this game are a little... disjointed."
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wysen wrote:

I demoed the game at a con this last weekend, and first chapter quest we pulled, I start reading the card aloud, "'So-and-so runs up to you in the inn...'" I look at our graveyard tile and shake my head. "Sorry," I tell the guy who signed up for the event, "The thematic elements in this game are a little... disjointed."


Like everything else in the game... the quests are an absolute mess.

Neat idea, horrifically executed.

I think this condept is actually what brought a lot of people on board, but it's so disjointed and makes no sense.

The only way we can make head or tail of it is to pick the Act quest we are doing and don't do any Chapter quests while doing an act quest or story quest... because it gets messy, muddled, and the narrative is utterly destroyed.

And if we're just doing chapter quests, we pick these too to make sense.

MCG like to say that 'Myth is about stories' but these are the most garbled stories you'll ever hear.
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Marcus the Ready wrote:
ShotgunLove wrote:
[q="MattShinners"]
I'm not fine with having quests in a retail box that go nowhere. Or, if you MUST have them in there as a taste of things to come, that's fine, just package separately in the retail box and label that the you need Expansion #?? to play. That would at least clarify this.


I made a full thread about this

Yes, many quests chain to nowhere.

You'll also be pleased to know that there's not enough minis to do the Slaughterfield quests either. And the miniboss (while playable) has rules that interact with minis that aren't available.

I made that 15 quests were usable out of 30. That's half are unusable.

MCG made an absolute mess of this game. Terrible rulebook, a borked delivery of Wave 1 and 2, a retail box that's incomplete.

But MCG gets off lightly and has plenty of apologists. If FFG released a main set this bad then gamers would come after them with pitchforks.


What i don't understand is why are you still on this forum if you really don't like this game? It baffles me that people have nothing better to do than complain on forums of games they don't like. Why are you still here :o

Seriously get over it...

Your points have been made, no need for repeating it over and over and over. The moment someone says he like this game, all you guys start unvoting his post or start bitching about it...
SERIOUSLY? Get over it and move on. Find a game you like and do something more constructive.
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Banemus wrote:
Seriously get over it...
Your points have been made, no need for repeating it over and over and over. The moment someone says he like this game, all you guys start unvoting his post or start bitching about it...
SERIOUSLY? Get over it and move on. Find a game you like and do something more constructive.


Shan't.

I won't let the apologists and Stockholm Syndrome cases have the last word.

I want to like this game, but there are serious faults with it.

If new players ask for opinions they should get honest ones.

You don't refute anything I said about the game, you just whine: 'LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE!!!'

Engage me. Tell me how anything I said is categorically wrong.
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For my part, I actually do like the game, a lot. I've called it a Descent killer to my game group, but then, I prefer the more RPG feel.

In fact, of all the many issues that have been listed throughout the Myth forum, this is the only one I've felt compelled to poke at. At it's most distilled, my OP really is a question: is stuff missing?

It's an easy fix though, just take out those quest lines when playing a game, and all is well in my book. If nothing else, my OP at least informs future purchasers of what to take out, so they're literally not left hanging.
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Banemus wrote:
Marcus the Ready wrote:
ShotgunLove wrote:
[q="MattShinners"]
I'm not fine with having quests in a retail box that go nowhere. Or, if you MUST have them in there as a taste of things to come, that's fine, just package separately in the retail box and label that the you need Expansion #?? to play. That would at least clarify this.


I made a full thread about this

Yes, many quests chain to nowhere.

You'll also be pleased to know that there's not enough minis to do the Slaughterfield quests either. And the miniboss (while playable) has rules that interact with minis that aren't available.

I made that 15 quests were usable out of 30. That's half are unusable.

MCG made an absolute mess of this game. Terrible rulebook, a borked delivery of Wave 1 and 2, a retail box that's incomplete.

But MCG gets off lightly and has plenty of apologists. If FFG released a main set this bad then gamers would come after them with pitchforks.


What i don't understand is why are you still on this forum if you really don't like this game? It baffles me that people have nothing better to do than complain on forums of games they don't like. Why are you still here :o

Seriously get over it...

Your points have been made, no need for repeating it over and over and over. The moment someone says he like this game, all you guys start unvoting his post or start bitching about it...
SERIOUSLY? Get over it and move on. Find a game you like and do something more constructive.


I would guess he's still in this forum to help out and answer questions for people who are trying to decide whether to spend money on this game which very recently became available in stores. If all the people who had issues with the game immediately left the forum and stopped replying to people with questions I'd probably have ordered it retail, tried it, and put it at the far back of the closet by now. Instead I've been saved some headaches and am watching for changes/improvements before I decide to invest.
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JimbobJones wrote:
Descent as made by MCG


That's just mean, Jimbob
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cormor321 wrote:
Banemus wrote:
Marcus the Ready wrote:
ShotgunLove wrote:
[q="MattShinners"]
I'm not fine with having quests in a retail box that go nowhere. Or, if you MUST have them in there as a taste of things to come, that's fine, just package separately in the retail box and label that the you need Expansion #?? to play. That would at least clarify this.


I made a full thread about this

Yes, many quests chain to nowhere.

You'll also be pleased to know that there's not enough minis to do the Slaughterfield quests either. And the miniboss (while playable) has rules that interact with minis that aren't available.

I made that 15 quests were usable out of 30. That's half are unusable.

MCG made an absolute mess of this game. Terrible rulebook, a borked delivery of Wave 1 and 2, a retail box that's incomplete.

But MCG gets off lightly and has plenty of apologists. If FFG released a main set this bad then gamers would come after them with pitchforks.


What i don't understand is why are you still on this forum if you really don't like this game? It baffles me that people have nothing better to do than complain on forums of games they don't like. Why are you still here :o

Seriously get over it...

Your points have been made, no need for repeating it over and over and over. The moment someone says he like this game, all you guys start unvoting his post or start bitching about it...
SERIOUSLY? Get over it and move on. Find a game you like and do something more constructive.


I would guess he's still in this forum to help out and answer questions for people who are trying to decide whether to spend money on this game which very recently became available in stores. If all the people who had issues with the game immediately left the forum and stopped replying to people with questions I'd probably have ordered it retail, tried it, and put it at the far back of the closet by now. Instead I've been saved some headaches and am watching for changes/improvements before I decide to invest.


Me too. I appreciate the in depth criticism much more than the "this game is awesome" superficial comments.
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JimbobJones wrote:
Descent as made by MCG:

 



Ouch!

Welcome back, Jimbob.

Your uncomfortable truths have been missed!
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JimbobJones wrote:
mfaulk80 wrote:
One mistake:
You don't add The Darkness Within if you succeed at Lucy's Troubles. That chain is actually complete if you succeed.

Also, note that success of Rescue My Daughter gives the option of Lucy's Doll OR Connor's Toy.


I still don't see how that's acceptable.

Isn't this game supposed to be freeform? If so, it seems to contradict their stated excuse goal by saying "the only way you can continue playing this quest is if you follow this exact path"

Are you referencing my first or second point? i.e. Lucy's Troubles or the Connor's Toy quest?

For the former, I wasn't saying whether or not it was acceptable. I was just stating a fact. Technically, it's the same with the latter....but I do think it's perfectly acceptable to not include Connor's Toy even though it's an option. Saying the game has "freeform" elements doesn't imply that everything is completely freeform or else there wouldn't be chains at all. It would just be a bunch of quests that players figure out how to meld themselves (setup for witty/snarky comment). Connor's Toy is a KS only quest, I assume. It likely won't be available in future retail expansions. This was MCG's effort to include KS quests into the base game. I can see an argument that the KS exclusive material shouldn't stick out so much in the retail version since it makes it feel like standard consumers are missing out....but that's a different argument. Really, even if Connor's Toy wasn't a KS quest, then I wouldn't have an issue with the chain since one can still continue with the chain in a different direction. Just my two cents.
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ShotgunLove wrote:
JimbobJones wrote:
Descent as made by MCG


That's just mean, Jimbob


If anything, he has fewer typos than the MCG book/cards. ;-)
 
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