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A Game of Thrones: The Board Game (Second Edition)» Forums » Variants

Subject: Six Player Lannister Buff? rss

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Chris Scott
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I've seen several variants for 3-5 player games, but there don't seem to be many 6-player games as a lot of people say that it's "balanced as is"... and yet, a lot of people complain about Lannister being underpowered.

Having never played, is Lannister truly underpowered, and if so, does anybody use any sort of variants that would give them a little more of a fighting chance?
 
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Matt Shinners
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Alsark wrote:
I've seen several variants for 3-5 player games, but there don't seem to be many 6-player games as a lot of people say that it's "balanced as is"... and yet, a lot of people complain about Lannister being underpowered.

Having never played, is Lannister truly underpowered, and if so, does anybody use any sort of variants that would give them a little more of a fighting chance?


Sorry to be a bit snarky, but this is the most discussed topic on this board. Poke around a bit (especially in the variants forum, probably), and you'll see a number of arguments for different changes to balance it out, if it needs balancing.
 
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Sean D.
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Lannister is not broken. IMHO
They can easily get 6 supply, and simply need to ally with Greyjoy. If Lannister and Greyjoy fight, they both lose. to Stark and Tyrell - in my experience.
 
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Scott Randolph
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Folks may find the below information interesting:

"From [59] Total Games:

Victories by House, 6p, RAW:
Greyjoy 13
Baratheon 8
Tyrell 7
Stark 6
Martell 5
Lannister 2

Victories by House, 6p, T6 Rules:
Tyrell 2
Lannister 2
Greyjoy 1

Victories by House, 5p Variant (No GJ):
Lannister 3
Tyrell 2
Baratheon 2
Martell 1

Victories by House, 7p, PoD Expansion:
Arryn 1

Victories by House, 4p, RAW:
Baratheon 3

Victories by House, 4p, Variant (TL, Lan, Bar, Sta):
Lannister 1 "


Player Eliminations by House:
Lannister 10
Greyjoy 7
Martell 2
Stark 1
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Filip Stysiak
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What are T6 rules?
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Alexander Steinbach
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We always have a house rule that lets Lannister start with 2 knights on Lannisport instead of 1 knight and 1 footman.

This is such a minor buff that I never bothered to create a variant thread about it, but I think it works rather well.

It Does not give him more options, nor buff him against Baratheon, since his footman at stoney sept will usually move to Harrenhall. Giving him an extra army point offsets the Valyrian Steel blade of Greyjoy. Thus making the early game a bit more fair.

In the long run, this buff becomes less and less valuable as players start to muster and their armies grow in strength. But in my opinion it helps Lannister stay alive during the first 3 turns of the game.
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Scott Randolph
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pasieka17 wrote:
What are T6 rules?


http://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/97270/t6-rules-for-6p-7p-a...

T6 Rules Link
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Scott Randolph
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Vardaine wrote:
We always have a house rule that lets Lannister start with 2 knights on Lannisport instead of 1 knight and 1 footman.

This is such a minor buff that I never bothered to create a variant thread about it, but I think it works rather well.

It Does not give him more options, nor buff him against Baratheon, since his footman at stoney sept will usually move to Harrenhall. Giving him an extra army point offsets the Valyrian Steel blade of Greyjoy. Thus making the early game a bit more fair.

In the long run, this buff becomes less and less valuable as players start to muster and their armies grow in strength. But in my opinion it helps Lannister stay alive during the first 3 turns of the game.


...makes sense to me, the T6 Rules are similar along this line.
 
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Alexander Steinbach
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SFRR wrote:
...makes sense to me, the T6 Rules are similar along this line.


Hmm, in the T6 rules the knight is placed in Stoney Sept. This makes it possible to be used against Baratheon. I do not like this as there is no imbalance in the Lannister-Baratheon game. Also, Greyjoy loses 1 combat point which may be a tad too much.
 
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Erik Amberger
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Hector131 wrote:
Lannister is not broken. IMHO
They can easily get 6 supply, and simply need to ally with Greyjoy. If Lannister and Greyjoy fight, they both lose. to Stark and Tyrell - in my experience.


In my experience Lannister doesn´t stand much of a chance against an experienced Greyjoy and Baratheon player.
It is a reasonable strategy for Greyjoy to fight early on in the game, since he has the Valyrian Steel Blade and superior House Cards. He can focus on controlling the sea or even take Riverrun, the latter which is the riskier strategy and gives other players, especially Baratheon an advantage, since he then has an easy time occupying Blackwater.
If Greyjoy focuses on the sea however, he can maintain a strong support from Ironman´s Bay and can strike against Lannister whenever he wants and there is almost no chance for Lannister to regain superiority of the sea.
After taking Lannister´s sea Greyjoy takes Stark`s with Victarion so there isn´t much of a threat there.
What is Lannister to do if he gets attacked from both sides?
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Filip Stysiak
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I'll use this "T6" Lannister buff and Greyjoy nerf the next time I'll be playing.

I've seen Lannister wiped out way too many times.

I was considering other kind of buff - starting additional FM in Harrenhal. I guess I'll have to test both of them.
 
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Filip Stysiak
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Hector131 wrote:
Lannister is not broken. IMHO
They can easily get 6 supply, and simply need to ally with Greyjoy. If Lannister and Greyjoy fight, they both lose. to Stark and Tyrell - in my experience.


I beg to differ. Greyjoy devouring Lannister is fairly easy and requires little luck. When Lannisport falls Greyjoy has unraidable support from Golden Sound and Ironman's Bay, which pretty much secures Sunset Sea for him (the only area that can be targeted by Tyrell, Lannisport and Searoad Marches being easily defended with GS support and defense orders or even preemptive march from Lannisport, if Tyrell puts a Siege there or on Stoney Sept).

With holding 4 strongholds and (sitting on 5 or 6 support if he doesn't loose Greywater) Greyjoy has easily defendable position against Stark who can only target Flint's Finger (Seagard is easily defendable), and of course he can try - and often suceed - to take Bay of Ice.

Of course, the players CAN succeed in stopping Greyjoy, but it's never Lannister who comes out as a winner. From my experience, it looks like this:

1. Greyjoy attacks Lannister
2. Greyjoy wins, because he can't loose
3. Greyjoy leaves Lannister with some pitiful remains of troops
4. Tyrell, Stark and sometimes Baratheon all attack Greyjoy who's suddenly sitting on 4 strongholds and Flint's finger, with a possible easy attack on Harrenhal or Winterfell next round
5a. Greyjoy manages to defend everything and eventually wins
5b. Greyjoy looses some and unbothered Baratheon/Martell/sometimes other house wins

plus "Lannister can easily have 6 barrels" is hardly an argument. To take those "6 barrels" he needs to move troops to Blackwater and Searoad Marches. You think there's enough troops to take Riverrun, the 6th barrel? Greyjoy will take it, and muster troops there, leacing you on Harrenhal and 5 barrels. Congratulations! You MAY have one barrel more than Greyjoy, and can have an army of four. Too bad you don't have Riverrun to actually muster this theoretical army while Greyjoy musters a ship to sunset sea, ship to Ironman's and knights in Seagard and Riverrun, which means you're about to loose everything to Victarion and Balon.

This footman in Blackwater will surely help, if mustering comes out as a first card!
 
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Sean D.
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/shrugs

I've had 6 supply every time I played Lannister. Didn't seem that hard.
 
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dark pank
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We are playing with a Greyjoy and Baratheon nerfs they both got a footman instead of a knight.
also the little map change:
http://i.imgur.com/4N9hZqF.jpg

And its brings a perfect balance in our opinion.
We aren't new to this game,we played over 40-60 games (we lost count)
 
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Dean the mean
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IMO in this game you are only as underpowered as your tongue (diplomatic strength)
my laat 6 player game lannister won and he still has an opportunity to to take an 8th castle.

After round 3 he had 2 ships docked at lannisport 1 knight and FM in lannisport plus a footman at harrnehal.

the dipshit who was greyjoy (second time player) did everything and anything stark told him to do (which was to wipe lannister off the board) and stark took greyjoys territories as he went (stark took advantage of greyjoys inexperience and greyjoy just wanted the game to end needless to say this was a violent match).
Anywho i as baratheon snapped and focused solely on crushing winterfell (which i did take and lose twice but took stark out of the running) lannister was able to use this moment of weakness to call on tyrell to assist on taking out greyjoy (tyrell ended up moving into pyke and greyjoy was completely off the map).

My point is if you lose at this game because of the team you are then you aren't playing correctly. As my example above lannister basically took on two armies until i managed to crush stark.
all though i didn't mind what stark and greyjoy did as i came up with many pinocchio and geppetto jokes
 
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Dean the mean
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i will be honest i did not even read your full comment as anyone 9/10 stark/baratheon/tyrell all have an interest in keeping greyjoy where they are...
i don't believe greyjoy has won any of our games except one instance where greyjoy was the only player who wasn't a first timer,
ive only been greyjoy once but if greyjoy marches on lannister straight away he is being foolish as greyjoy definitely has the steering wheel when it comes to negotiations
 
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Alexander Steinbach
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Darkpank wrote:
We are playing with a Greyjoy and Baratheon nerfs they both got a footman instead of a knight.


Why do you believe Baratheon needs a nerf??
 
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Maurice P
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My group used to play with giving Lannister an extra ship in the port of Lannisport.
But, as we got better that led to Lannister dominating greyjoy
Now we're even better at the game. And through using the Raven cleverly in the beginning and making some shrew decisions Lannister has even odds with Greyjoy and ultimately their fates come down to westeros cards and diplomacy with neighbors
again that's assuming you have two really good players playing both.
I've seen greyjoy wipeout lannister, killing every last piece
but I've also seen lannister wipeout greyjoy
interestingly neither won one those game
 
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Lars Munstermann
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I would like to try out to give Lannister and Greyjoy both the ADWD Housecards and let everything else like it was in the base game. Lannister would now have a better (but not overpowered) deck and can defend itself more effective, while Greyjoys deck is maybe a bit weaker than in the base game, but it is stil a good deck and especially with Aeron there is a devasting housecard, but now they would have to pay an (iron) price, to make that card effective, while Balon was an auto win card, without paying any power tokens.
 
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