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Subject: CAT Variant rss

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Dennis Kochan
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Hello...

Without getting into all of the details at this moment, here is the proposal....

Units may selectively close-assault units in the same 'target hex'.

Only units designated for a close-assault will be attacked as specified by the attacker.

More than one unit, in the same hex, may selectively attack a specified target unit.

The attack only effects the target unit and none of the other units occupying the hex.

Optionally, this could be limited to terrain such as woods and village / town hexes. But could include units defending in a 'fort'. In short, if you can selectively fire at it, then you can selectively assault it.

There are more mods that can go with this 'rule', and I'll address them later....

I look forward to your feedback and ideas...

Dennis
 
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Jason Cawley
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Seems to me this makes infantry much less useful on defense that it is in the original game. I mean, it is perfectly normal to have your good Russian gun unit stacked with an rifle company to beef up its defense against close assault, and this variant would let 1-2 weaker platoons just walk up and kill the guns as though the covering infantry company wasn't there defending them.

You can of course ranged fire at the gun. But then you don't get -2 to the die - your 2 platoons of rifles will likely suppress a 12-6-3-0 antitank battery with their 2-1, but they won't kill it (unless they roll a 1).

The place where is does make sense to me is a whole flock of infantry being able to attack one enemy tank out of a stack of several, if the tanks stick around that close. But I don't like the idea of being able to "pick on" the weak gun unit as though accompanying infantry isn't there.

Maybe the right way to handle that would be to say you can pick out a target, but all "I" leg infantry units in the attacked hex have to be part of the targeted units for the CAT. That gives "infantry escorts" a role and makes combined arms sense, it lets infantry defend guns, it still lets a pack of infantry pick out one tank platoon in a stack of pure vehicles. Work for you?
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Dennis Kochan
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Hello...

Yes, another mod that can have many variations. As you mentioned, being able to pick on the weak guns can and should be avoided as it is being to gamey. One way to do this is to have a unit, say guns or tanks, being 'protected' by accompanying infantry unit(s). So, that when close assaulted, the accompanying infantry unit must first be 'defeated' to a degree that a close-assault can be carried out on the 'protected' unit.

Simply having a rule that states a unit or units stacked above or below (your choice) constitutes the 'accompanying' unit(s) that are protecting that unit. However, in 'close' situations (villages / forests), that maybe when you would allow selected close-assaults. As the ability of sub-units to see and support one another would be limited. Its a game-changer for sure, but it should be manageable and bring a level of variety to the game.

As always, I look forward to your feedback and ideas.

Dennis
 
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Jason Cawley
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I wouldn't use stacking order - fiddly, extra complexity - I'd just require that the CAT targets all I units in the hex, whatever else it does or doesn't target.

It is not like a tank can decide to protect a gun from close assault - but infantry is spread throughout the hex, and you can't get to other stuff present without getting "through" them.
 
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Dennis Kochan
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Hello...

I see what you mean, its just that I've always wanted to be able to replicate the actual tactics and techniques for such situations. I've especially always hated the invulnerability afforded Russian infantry units because of their size. I've yet to figure out how to make the Russians pay for their inabilities instead of effectively rewarding them for it as PB does. If anyone out there has any techniques, it sure would be helpful.

In towns and forest / close country especially. Their lack of command and control and such is infamous. They literally had to lay out what whole divisions and corps would be doing the day before they would do it. Yes infantry is 'spread out' through the hex. And you certainly could argue that in the Russians case. But, they are not just hanging out in the woods or the town. Sub-units are give areas of responsibility and need to co-ordinate with other units in their company, to have an effective defense. Being in towns / forests can go a very long way toward being able to do that. It has the effect of 'breaking up' the unit into smaller units that may or may not be able to support other units. Its just the nature of not being able to see what's going on around you because of the terrain.

That's where they are vulnerable. And exploiting the vulnerability of your opponent is what usually wins the battle, eh? Stacking order is too fiddly? Complex? You have to do it anyway, whether its for a specific reason or not, correct? I mean its not like it will take you hours to accomplish each stack organization to your benefit. And just requiring all units in a stack be attacked as one unit might be okay for the Russian 'charge', but that's about all. What do you think?

As always I look forward to your feedback and ideas.

Dennis
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