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Battlestar Galactica: The Board Game – Exodus Expansion» Forums » Rules

Subject: CFB Questions on Rules/variants rss

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Dan
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Well, having taken a look at the CFB and playing around with it, I gotta say I can understand now how it can be "gamed". I have a few questions about it, though...

1) If a basestar cannot launch ships, do they spawn on the CFB, or do I ignore launch/activate for them?
1A) If a basestar cannot activate (launch raiders on a damaged launcher or basestar attack with damaged weapons) do I spawn a basestar on the CFB or ignore it?
1B) If the answer to 1 and/or 1A is "ignore", is it common to house rule it so that they do?

2) If activation causes ships to go from the CFB to the MGB, do I move the track up one, or is that only when adding ships to the MGB?

3) Do basestars maintain damage when the fleet jumps?
3A) If basestars do maintain damage, is it common to houserule them so they do not?

4) How common is it to still include CAC cards with the CFB?
 
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Mark L
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1. Ignore
1A. Ignore
1B. I prefer to house-rule "easy" ways of gaming the CFB. Damaging a Basestar is fine as the humans have to spend Actions to do it. The main issue is, in my opinion, Destinations such as Cylon Ambush and Derelict Basestar. Broadcast Location was also like this but if you're using Daybreak that's no longer an issue.

Also if you're going to prevent the humans from gaming the CFB then it just encourages Cylons to reveal as soon as possible to use the (overpowered) Basestar Bridge location, so it's a tradeoff.

2. Yes.

3. No.

4. There are no official rules for this, but there are plenty of different variants for combining the two. Personally, I prefer to go with one or the other, house-ruling the CFB.
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Pasi Ojala
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2) Note that there is a difference between activations and placements. AFAIR, if a placement forces to take ships from the CFB because the supply is empty or insufficient, you do not advance the pursuit track.
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skribs15 wrote:

1) If a basestar cannot launch ships, do they spawn on the CFB, or do I ignore launch/activate for them?
1A) If a basestar cannot activate (launch raiders on a damaged launcher or basestar attack with damaged weapons) do I spawn a basestar on the CFB or ignore it?
1B) If the answer to 1 and/or 1A is "ignore", is it common to house rule it so that they do?

Quote:

Q: If the only basestar on the main game board has the dis-abled hangar damage token on it when a
launch raiders icons is resolved, do players place a basestar on the Cylon Fleet game board and advance
the Pursuit track? What about if the only basestar has the disabled weapons damage token when a
activate basestars icon is resolved.
A: In both cases, do not place a basestar on the Cylon Fleet game board and do not advance the Pursuit
track.

UFAQ-page 6
And I wouldnt worry about how common a houserule is. Just houserule it if you feel comfortable with it, as long as every player is aware of it at the start of the game.

Quote:
2) If activation causes ships to go from the CFB to the MGB, do I move the track up one, or is that only when adding ships to the MGB?

yes, it still moves up
Quote:

5. Since there are no basestars in space areas on the main
game board, the current player would normally roll a die
and place a basestar in a Cylon space area.
However, there are currently no more basestars
available to place, so the current player instead finds
the highest-numbered Cylon space area that contains
at least one basestar, in this case the “5–6” Cylon space
area, and moves all of the ships in that area to the
corresponding space area on the main game board.
6. The current player advances the Cylon pursuit marker
one space on the Pursuit track.

Exodus rulebook, page 13

Quote:
3) Do basestars maintain damage when the fleet jumps?
3A) If basestars do maintain damage, is it common to houserule them so they do not?

No. they get repaired according to the errata for exodus on page 4.
http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/Battlestar_Gal...

You could houserule it so that damage stays if you like, but humans will probably exploit that by just leaving a permanently crippled basestar on the board, if they can. (weapons disable and hangar disabled)

Quote:
4) How common is it to still include CAC cards with the CFB?

I quite like some of the CAC+CFB variants, but i'm not sure how common they are. try it once, and see if you like it.
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The only time I would include CAC with CFB is in a solo game, or variant game with no cylons at all.

There are some variants where you use both in normal games. IIRC, when the Pursuit track reaches auto attack, reveal a CAC, but ignore the 2-civvy spot?

.

A variant to keep gaming the CFB is ANY cylon ship icon will +1 on the Pursuit track.

For Cylon Ambush Dcard (the one where people say "the admiral's definitely human because he lead us into a Cylon Ambush", someone here suggested using the misprinted German version that puts out not 1, but 2 basestars.

markino wrote:
Also if you're going to prevent the humans from gaming the CFB then it just encourages Cylons to reveal as soon as possible to use the (overpowered) Basestar Bridge location, so it's a tradeoff.

I'd beg to differ, as BB isn't all that at times.
 
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Quote:
'misprinted german version'

Oh that's not a misprint; germans are just hardcore enough to play the game on expert mode
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Starfox4 wrote:
Quote:
'misprinted german version'

Oh that's not a misprint; germans are just hardcore enough to play the game on expert mode
Well, but then Kat's OPG then allows her to destroy 5 raiders AND 2 heavy AND raiders AND 1 basestar, OR 2 civvies.
 
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Kwijiboe
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My recommendation is to play it as is. If you find that you, or others are intentionally stalling the fleet board, then find a suitable remedy. That could be developing strategies without adding rules, or as a last resort: implement house rules.

Although, it's usually not a problem for most groups until everyone at the table is aware of it. After a few games, people will notice though: some will act on it, some won't.

I can't help but think some of the destinations were purposely designed to stall the pursuit track. I mean, how can they not: they come included in the same Exodus expansion.

I think Exodus was designed to be an in-your-face space battle game. Hidden Sabotage is no longer the best strategy (still viable, but less so). Humans can stall through game effects (with exodus components). But, Cylons may feel forced to reveal early to make sure Cylon attacks are coordinated and effective. (And not being gamed).

Ultimately, is a huge end game space battle appealing to you? If so, Exodus typically delivers on that.

I just caution you on going down the house rule path: sometimes it's best to leave things out if they're clearly broken. House rules are probably one of my biggest pet peeves: mostly because they haven't been tested enough (on a large scale) to determine how they are permanently changing the game.
 
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Kwijiboe wrote:
I just caution you on going down the house rule path: sometimes it's best to leave things out if they're clearly broken. House rules are probably one of my biggest pet peeves: mostly because they haven't been tested enough (on a large scale) to determine how they are permanently changing the game.
Problem is, CAC have their own woes too. Either way, do try as is a few times, but I'm assuming the OP is asking because he's already seen some issues.
 
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Dan
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Well, I was testing it out in solo, and I think solo CAG Starbuck might be a little OP at the space battle aspect of the game. I found that compared with CAC, the game was significantly easier. You don't get the whole fleet dumped on you at once, and it was incredibly easy to manage.

Maybe with more players and less pilot actions it would be harder, and I guess with cylons actually in the game spamming the bridge it would be harder, but at least for the solo game I played, it seemed easier. There were a few more spikes of enemy ships coming in than with CAC, but it's like 2-foot waves instead of 10-footers.

while I believe the BB is very powerful, I disagree that revealing early is the only option. You still have opportunities for subterfuge, especially with an extra title card and the ability to stay hidden better with conflicted loyalties.
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skribs15 wrote:
Well, I was testing it out in solo, and I think solo CAG Starbuck might be a little OP at the space battle aspect of the game. I found that compared with CAC, the game was significantly easier. You don't get the whole fleet dumped on you at once, and it was incredibly easy to manage.

Maybe with more players and less pilot actions it would be harder, and I guess with cylons actually in the game spamming the bridge it would be harder, but at least for the solo game I played, it seemed easier. There were a few more spikes of enemy ships coming in than with CAC, but it's like 2-foot waves instead of 10-footers.

while I believe the BB is very powerful, I disagree that revealing early is the only option. You still have opportunities for subterfuge, especially with an extra title card and the ability to stay hidden better with conflicted loyalties.


That's my observation too. In hindsight, I probably could've done a variant to include both CAC and CFB for that solo PBF game here on BGG. Oh well, still fun, if not as satisfying.
 
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Kwijiboe
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CAC's feast or famine nature is indeed a problem, but it can be managed somewhat by scouting. In any case, the Crisis cards will be hitting the morale resource hard throughout the entire game.

Cylon Attack Cards are not intended to be "huge space battles" that "give something pilots to do." In the base game, CACs are there to target the population resource and force the fleet ro risk population by hitting up FTL. The Basestars are intended to damage Galactica.

Everytime a CAC arrives, the crew must decide whether they want to stand and fight or risk leaving people behind through use of the FTL. If the fleet stays, Galactica will likely take punishment from Basestars, while Vipers and Civilian ships are at a higher risk.

It's one thing I love about the base game's CAC: someone usually wants to stand and fight to prevent losing population from FTL, whereas someone is begging the fleet to jump. You don't know for certain what the outcome will be, but you know that players may have a motive for wanting to stay or leave. In Exodus, you can almost always stand and fight with Exodus' heavy emphasis on space battles. It's often the best choice most of the time: if you don't, you're going to be creamed as the fleet builds.

In either case, I see much more of a need to house rule Exodus's CFB. (Although, when I do play Exodus, I play it without other expansions to reduce the amount of options available for gaming the fleet board.)

In contrast, I see little need to house rule CAC. (I've heard of people doing Pandemic shuffles: this can be gamed as well. When playing CACs just make sure that there's no clumping of CACs at the bottom of the deck: something that usually results after a previous game is played with CAC.)

I just caution OP to not houserule CFB until he's played it half a dozen times. Like I said earlier, it's a problem if a) people know about it and actively look to "game" it, and b) if you're playing with other expansions. (Especially Daybreak. Negotiation skill card, Dradis Contact, and a Mutiny card that brings in a Basestar. Pegasus presents similar problems, but is less of an offendor if you've mixed Daybreak in as well).

skribs15 wrote:
Well, I was testing it out in solo, and I think solo CAG Starbuck might be a little OP at the space battle aspect of the game. I found that compared with CAC, the game was significantly easier. You don't get the whole fleet dumped on you at once, and it was incredibly easy to manage.

Maybe with more players and less pilot actions it would be harder, and I guess with cylons actually in the game spamming the bridge it would be harder, but at least for the solo game I played, it seemed easier. There were a few more spikes of enemy ships coming in than with CAC, but it's like 2-foot waves instead of 10-footers.

while I believe the BB is very powerful, I disagree that revealing early is the only option. You still have opportunities for subterfuge, especially with an extra title card and the ability to stay hidden better with conflicted loyalties.


I've corrected myself: revealing early isn't the only option, however, Cylons will feel an increased amount of pressure to reveal early. The reason is because there is so many pro-human things to do in Exodus.

If you don't have the Presidency or the Admiralty, I'd feel more inclined to reveal rather than help Galactica. The CAG title isn't great for Cylons, it requires the title holder to make decisions with open information: often the case will be that other players will tell you where to place civies. Consequently, it grants you little opportunity for hidden sabotage.

If you find yourself not having a title and you draw leadership: the fleet will expect you to XO a pilot most of the time. This tradeoff is worth it if you are the President or Admiral, but do you really want to XO humans if you have no title? You can only lie about not drawing XOs for so long. Pilots are put in a worse position: "Why aren't you out in space shooting crap?" Meanwhile, if you rolled a support Cylon, you're going to question whether its worth repairing Galactica just to stay hidden: again, you're not likely going to be able to convince the fleet that you're not drawing repairs. (The support Cylon problem is also a problem with the base game, but to Exodus' credit it does give support characters a very strong "0" card for spiking skill checks. But it's use can be far too obvious.)

Point is: playing an XO in the base game is not nearly as powerful as XOing the CAG in Exodus. You already mentioned that you believe Kara is strong enough: do you want to give her even more actions as a Cylon that draws leadership?

Some roles in Exodus are simply awful for Cylon players. To have an ample opportunity to sabotage in Exodus as a Cylon: you either need the Presidency or the Admiralty. If you don't have either title, you're going to feel forced help the humans a lot just so you have the opportunity to spike Crises. At some point, you're going to reveal because you simply don't want to help the humans anymore.
 
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skribs15 wrote:
Maybe with more players and less pilot actions it would be harder

In the base game you can more or less ignore the cylon attacks and keep moving civilians away from the raiders until you can jump and that resets the board. And because a pilot needs to return to Galactica before each jump, if you really need to fight, it is usually more efficient to park someone in Command to be XO'ed than to send the pilot into space.

With the Cylon Fleet board you need to start dealing with the raiders, heavy raiders and basestars early and effectively, or every cylon ship is going to catch up with you before the end. The civilian ships are not cleared off the board automatically, you have to escort them. This consumes actions, so you have to be overall more efficient (although the CAG title gives the CAG a free viper activation per turn while in space). Don't forget the nukes.

Of course there are swings based on the order of the crisis cards with and without the CFB, but CFB feels more consistent, including the total play time (we play a game to Kobol with all expansions in 2-2.5 hours).
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