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Subject: It's that time again - Cell Portal post H&P rss

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Christopher MacLeod
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With every new data pack comes one burning question above all others - is it time for Cell Portal and his good friend Whirlpool to have their day in the sun?

Again and again the answer has been "no, those cards suck, also Jinteki sucks, noob". But let us try once more, now with Komainu!

Komainu is exceptional because gains subroutines on top of the previous ones with each encounter - on the first trip through we can expect a Runner with 5 cards and a sentry breaker to break it for $5, but on the second encounter it costs $10 or they will suffer 10 net damage.

The Future Perfect also allows us to run fewer, hard to steal agendas and therefore more combo pieces. Lastly Mental Health Clinic gives us drip economy while setting up. The extra hand size just means Komainu has more subroutines.

Below is a completely untested decklist - help me refine it before I playtest on OCTGN tonight and am mercilessly pummeled

Cell Portal Jinteki (49 cards)

Jinteki: Replicating Perfection

Agenda (9)
3 Fetal AI
3 NAPD Contract
3 The Future Perfect

Asset (9)
3 Jackson Howard •••
3 Mental Health Clinic
3 Sundew

Upgrade (6)
2 Akitaro Watanabe
3 Corporate Troubleshooter •••
1 Midori

Operation (7)
2 Celebrity Gift
3 Hedge Fund
2 Interns

Barrier (2)
2 Himitsu-Bako

Code Gate (6)
2 Cell Portal
2 Chum
2 Pop-up Window ••

Sentry (8)
2 Ichi 1.0 ••••
3 Komainu
3 Shadow •••

ICE (2)
2 Whirlpool

Built with http://netrunner.meteor.com/
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Daniel Honig
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Don't forget that Deus X can also break any number of AP subroutines.
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Jeremy Hager
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Captain Frisk
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Untested, speculative feedback:

With corporate troubleshooter and komainu, I can't imagine not putting house of knives in here. It gives you a chance at a 2 kill combo against inexperienced / desperate / careless runners, and then 2 different 3 card kill combos (whirlpool -> komainu -> cell portal OR komainu + troubleshooter + house of knives)

I would go:

-1 Future perfect
+3 House of Knives
-2 ????? SOB what to cut - jinteki has too many cards!
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Corwin David
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Captain_Frisk wrote:
Untested, speculative feedback:

With corporate troubleshooter and komainu, I can't imagine not putting house of knives in here. It gives you a chance at a 2 kill combo against inexperienced / desperate / careless runners, and then 2 different 3 card kill combos (whirlpool -> komainu -> cell portal OR komainu + troubleshooter + house of knives)

I would go:

-1 Future perfect
+3 House of Knives
-2 ????? SOB what to cut - jinteki has too many cards!


Watanabe. I'd cut him because he's basically econ, not really going to help with the killshot.

Midori is cute, and a good way to shuffle ICE around and keep your opponent off balance.
 
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Joe P
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I've always played with the idea of throwing Levy University in to tutor the ice you need, but as always, what to cut?

I 2nd cutting Watanabe.
 
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Maëlig B
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I can't see this working effectively. It's expensive, it needs a lot of setup and there's a lot of ways to get around it. Whirlpool can be broken by atman / crypsis / a mid-run parasite. With deus ex you can just take the damage from komainu (or break it with something else) first time around and use deus ex on the "2nd" run. Or if you have a clone chip around you just break both with deus ex.
 
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Christopher MacLeod
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Captain_Frisk wrote:

-1 Future perfect
+3 House of Knives
-2 ????? SOB what to cut - jinteki has too many cards!


I really like the idea of giving the Troubleshooter extra value with House of Knives. I also have the option of cutting a Fetal or a NAPD for 2 copies instead of 3, and then only needing to cut 1 other card.
 
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Christopher MacLeod
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y3ol wrote:
I've always played with the idea of throwing Levy University in to tutor the ice you need, but as always, what to cut?

I 2nd cutting Watanabe.


Levy forces you to reveal the ICE which completely loses the surprise factor, which is a big part in convincing the Runner to go in without proper preparation. It's also expensive and has little utility outside the combo.

No love for Watanabe? He saves you $2 on *each* Cell Portal Rez, plus $2 on the Komainu rez.

Maelig wrote:
I can't see this working effectively. It's expensive, it needs a lot of setup and there's a lot of ways to get around it. Whirlpool can be broken by atman / crypsis / a mid-run parasite. With deus ex you can just take the damage from komainu (or break it with something else) first time around and use deus ex on the "2nd" run. Or if you have a clone chip around you just break both with deus ex.


Frisk has provided a great idea with House of Knives that prevents them from saving their Deus Ex for a later encounter - if they just eat the first 5 net damage, you can then choose to flatline with HoK.

Saying Whirlpool can be broken by AI breakers is like saying that Scorched Earth can be countered by Plascrete. The solutions to that are the same: (a) play a normal game of Netrunner, (b) when they don't have it, you kill them. Corporate Troubleshooter can potentially be used also depending on the relative credit totals.

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Sean Trundle
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Captain_Frisk wrote:
Untested, speculative feedback:

With corporate troubleshooter and komainu, I can't imagine not putting house of knives in here. It gives you a chance at a 2 kill combo against inexperienced / desperate / careless runners, and then 2 different 3 card kill combos (whirlpool -> komainu -> cell portal OR komainu + troubleshooter + house of knives)

I would go:

-1 Future perfect
+3 House of Knives
-2 ????? SOB what to cut - jinteki has too many cards!


House of Knives also forces them to run with more cards, which will help add subroutines to Komainu. Since Komainu (and to a lesser extent Psychic Field) are a thing now, I'm not typically running against Jinteki with more than 3 cards if I can help it.

To the OP - this has been discussed to some extent here:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/1167237/komainu-question

For the amount of setup that's required, I don't think the payoff is worth it. If they start with 3 cards in hand, you're going to pay 5 to rez the Cell Portal for each loop and it will only cost them 6 per loop (because they *will* zero out their hand after the first time through, when they see what's going on) to break if they're using traditional breakers.

Frankly, if they can't break Cell Portal, they probably can't break Inazuma. Inazuma -> Komainu with a scored House of Knives is a lot easier to setup, and all parts of that combo are strong in their own right.
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David F
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Any Cell Portal deck requires 3x Midori to guarantee the Cell Portal is on the inside.

Midori also protects your precious Cell Portal against the inevitable Femme Fatale / Parasite (swap out the compromised Ice, then swap it in later, sans Parasite / FF token).

(Take it from Cell Portal's biggest fan from day 1! )
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JPG
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While it is cool to set up the kill shot, it (and Whirlpool) is not necessary.

I played a similar deck for a bit before Spin came out. It used Watanabe and Midori to set up a server with Cell Portal and taxing ice. Not my own idea, but picked it up here on BGG.

What I found was that the server was very secure as long as I could keep rezzing Cell Portal. Even without the kill, the cost to go through was too high for the runner.

Not trying to discourage you from going for the kill, but a Cell Portal server can be quite effective at setting up scoring windows even without all the elements (Whirlpool, kill ice, etc).

My point being that the kill elements are less important to an effective server than the ice position and economic elements. The deck I played ran 3 Midori/3 Watanabe along with other economic assets. You need to focus on getting these out consistently. The type of taxing ice in front of Cell Portal is less important.

Edit: Yes, I remember now, mine was based on your A loves M deck.
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David F
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Grusome99 wrote:

While it is cool to set up the kill shot, it (and Whirlpool) is not necessary.

I played a similar deck for a bit before Spin came out. It used Watanabe and Midori to set up a server with Cell Portal and taxing ice. Not my own idea, but picked it up here on BGG.

What I found was that the server was very secure as long as I could keep rezzing Cell Portal. Even without the kill, the cost to go through was too high for the runner.

Not trying to discourage you from going for the kill, but a Cell Portal server can be quite effective at setting up scoring windows even without all the elements (Whirlpool, kill ice, etc).

My point being that the kill elements are less important to an effective server than the ice position and economic elements. The deck I played ran 3 Midori/3 Watanabe along with other economic assets. You need to focus on getting these out consistently. The type of taxing ice in front of Cell Portal is less important.


Agree, here's my pre-Spin deck covering those same principles: Akitaro Loves Midori. Back then, I had to use janky Ice, economy and agendas because that was all that was available to Jinteki, it should be much improved now with Jinteki's new tricks.
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Peter O
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Kiv6 wrote:
With every new data pack comes one burning question above all others - is it time for Cell Portal and his good friend Whirlpool to have their day in the sun?

Again and again the answer has been "no, those cards suck, also Jinteki sucks, noob". But let us try once more, now with Komainu!

Komainu is exceptional because gains subroutines on top of the previous ones with each encounter - on the first trip through we can expect a Runner with 5 cards and a sentry breaker to break it for $5, but on the second encounter it costs $10 or they will suffer 10 net damage.

The Future Perfect also allows us to run fewer, hard to steal agendas and therefore more combo pieces. Lastly Mental Health Clinic gives us drip economy while setting up. The extra hand size just means Komainu has more subroutines.

Below is a completely untested decklist - help me refine it before I playtest on OCTGN tonight and am mercilessly pummeled :)

Cell Portal Jinteki (49 cards)

Jinteki: Replicating Perfection

Agenda (9)
3 Fetal AI
3 NAPD Contract
3 The Future Perfect

Asset (9)
3 Jackson Howard •••
3 Mental Health Clinic
3 Sundew

Upgrade (6)
2 Akitaro Watanabe
3 Corporate Troubleshooter •••
1 Midori

Operation (7)
2 Celebrity Gift
3 Hedge Fund
2 Interns

Barrier (2)
2 Himitsu-Bako

Code Gate (6)
2 Cell Portal
2 Chum
2 Pop-up Window ••

Sentry (8)
2 Ichi 1.0 ••••
3 Komainu
3 Shadow •••

ICE (2)
2 Whirlpool

Built with http://netrunner.meteor.com/


Here's my completely untested response. I was planning to describe everything, but I'm at work...

Cards: 49 / 45
Agenda points: 20 / 20
Influence points: 15 / 15
Identity: Replicating Perfection

Agenda (10)
2x Fetal AI
2x NAPD Contract
3x House of Knives
3x The Future Perfect

Asset (12)
1x Marked Accounts ●
2x Levy University
3x Jackson Howard ●●●
3x Sundew
3x Mental Health Clinic

Ice (20)
2x Cell Portal
1x Wall of Thorns
1x Janus 1.0 ●●●
3x Pop-up Window ●●●
2x Whirlpool
1x Heimdall 2.0 ●●●
2x Yagura
1x Inazuma
3x Komainu
3x Pup
1x Susanoo-No-Mikoto

Operation (3)
3x Interns

Upgrade (4)
2x Corporate Troubleshooter ●●
2x Akitaro Watanabe

 
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C Spiekerman
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Another new addition for possibly enabling Cell Portal is Nisei Division + Snowflake. That basically gives Jinteki access to 3 in faction pop-up windows, just bid zero on the Snowflake.

So between Braintrust, Pop-ups, Snowflakes, and Akitaro, you might be able to set up a server that can rez the Portal repeatedly for very little cash.

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General Norris
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The thing is Cell Portal is a Tollbooth with a harsh placement restriction and a reduced cost. Nobody is going to let the subroutine trigger and take an ETR after spending half a billion dollars crossing Ichis if they can help it. And if they can't, hey, paying 5 for ETR seems great to me!

The problem is getting it in its correct position, not paying its rez cost. I mean, it's not like Jinteki isn't swimming in cash right now, right?

I'm happy to throw it in as a singleton. I don't recommend two because they are umplayable in pairs and clog your hand doing nothing.
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Christopher MacLeod
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cspieker wrote:
Another new addition for possibly enabling Cell Portal is Nisei Division + Snowflake. That basically gives Jinteki access to 3 in faction pop-up windows, just bid zero on the Snowflake.

So between Braintrust, Pop-ups, Snowflakes, and Akitaro, you might be able to set up a server that can rez the Portal repeatedly for very little cash.



I hadn't considered using Nisei Division, so thanks for bringing that up.

Unfortunately if they're caught in a Whirpool death trap, they can deliberately try to lose the PSI game to end the run themselves. The same thing applies to Pop-Up Window (refusing to pay the $1), so really Shadow is the only economy ICE that synergizes with the death loop.

Pop-Up is in the list more as cheap protection for the economy assets, and something to go on Archives since I'm not running Shock.

General_Norris wrote:

The problem is getting it in its correct position, not paying its rez cost. I mean, it's not like Jinteki isn't swimming in cash right now, right?

I'm happy to throw it in as a singleton. I don't recommend two because they are umplayable in pairs and clog your hand doing nothing.


I understand that I probably won't rez two copies of Cell Portal, but having 2 in the deck greatly increases the chance of seeing it early enough to put it as the base of a scoring remote, without having to do something fancy like Midori / Tenma Line.
 
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Cees de Boer
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selwyth wrote:
Any Cell Portal deck requires 3x Midori to guarantee the Cell Portal is on the inside.

Midori also protects your precious Cell Portal against the inevitable Femme Fatale / Parasite (swap out the compromised Ice, then swap it in later, sans Parasite / FF token).

(Take it from Cell Portal's biggest fan from day 1! )


I've played around a little with a deck that tried to run midori for value after seeing lots of runner decks play with knight (esspecially on closed ice). In that case it's always worth it playing a midori. On rezzed ice, also regarding parasite it's a bit harder to justify, but it can be a nice tempo play. Taking out that knight so they have to draw for the next one can be very nice. This beyond simply finding new ice that you know they won't be able to break, which is what she does without trickery.

Now, given that I can justify midori and build the deck around having her (tollbooth becomes a lot better knowing femme costs them as much as it costs you to take tollbooth back in hand), a single cell portal to get that last agenda back is obviously ok I think whirlpool is too hard to pull off, but cell portal basically becomes a 7 strength etr codegate if your stack is expensive enough to pass.
 
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Christopher MacLeod
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A couple fun experiences with the deck. Not sure if Jinteki is awesome now or people are just bad at playing against it.

Mid-game, I set up a remote of Shadow -> Chum -> Cell Portal -> Akitaro and my opponent (Ken) went in with Inside Job after I did IAA on Future Perfect.

Tragically for him, his only decoder was Passport, so for only $5 I rezzed everything, dealt 3 net damage, and he jacked out after Cell Portal derezzed. That Akitaro was a champ.

In another game I had Komainu -> Shadow -> Shadow -> Midori, Akitaro, and Corporate Troubleshooter stacked on R&D with the Cell Portal in hand.

I don't even know what he thought was on R&D - Caprice, Ash, and Hokusai? But he didn't run it for the rest of the game so I never had to rez.

Whirpool has yet to trigger, but I'll give it a few more games because I want to live the dream.



 
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