Eric Bridge
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My wife and I really enjoy this game, and the expansion has made it even better for us. But I'm getting concerned that the bonus points per Lord at the end of the game are not as balanced as before. (And by the way we never had the problem with the Building Lord from the base game - she is easily minimized if other players also build.)

Xanathar - This was so bad that at first we thought he ignores the corruption penalty (but he doesn't). We have already houseruled him to 6 points per Corruption point instead of 4.

The Lady that gives 6 points per any one type. On the other hand she seemed too powerful, at is it common in our group to get several quests of the same type. She's seems especially overpowered with lots of little quests of the same type. We're thinking of houseruling her to 5 points per.

The two Lords that give 4 points per quest or building from Undermountain or Skullport, respectively. Even though we have removed the suggested quests and buildings from our game, this still seems a little weak compared to the other dual-type Lords. This is because with other Lord types you know which buildings will benefit you the most (i.e. Cleric building for Piety, Gold generating building for Commerce, etc). But with these two new Lords you really never know what building to buy (other than Skullport/Undermountain, since your quest requirements will be all over the place). Maybe I'm being overly pessimistic, but we're thinking of increasing these to 5 points per (which will also help to keep the building lady in check with two other Lords going for them).

Have others of you reached similar conclusions?

(BTW we also removed all duplicates of Intrigue cards, since we agreed that we wanted all of them to be unique.)

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Paul W
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Eugene
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Xanathar has already been extensively discussed...I think he's fine and simply requires a good balance in play, others disagree.

I think that adjustments you've suggested are all unnecessary, though I have very little experience with the two players game, if that's what you generally play.
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Manuel Ingeland
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Xanathar needs some twerking, yes.
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Bryan Thunkd
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Florence
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You're free to do as you like... but I tend to think that when you start tweaking and house-ruling, you are climbing down the rabbit hole of weirdness. Discussions of balance and strategy are difficult to have at that point because you're playing a different game than everyone else.

All too often I hear house rules implemented to fix things that aren't broken. A group is stuck in groupthink and doesn't understand that there are ways to counter something "over-powered" or ways to play the "underpowered" strategy to advantage. So instead of changing how they play, they "fix" the game. Which is fine... as long as you live in your little house-ruled universe and never venture out into discussions or play with new players.
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Xanathar is very weird because he has the only power that (usually) never scores direct points.

Xan wins by:
1. being able to take very profitable corruption actions and less penalty than other players and pumping out quests
2. Punishing other players for taking corruption by taking some himself to drag everyone down.

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Bryan Thunkd
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magneheeli wrote:
Xanathar needs some twerking, yes.
I think you mean tweaking... twerking is something altogether different.
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Manuel Ingeland
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Thunkd wrote:
magneheeli wrote:
Xanathar needs some twerking, yes.
I think you mean tweaking... twerking is something altogether different.


Pun intended
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Gláucio Reis
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Eric, I think you are missing non-obvious advantages or disadvantages that these lords have.

As Xanathar, as already pointed out, you can benefit from corruption actions for a lower penalty, and by taking them more often, you also increase the penalty for the other players.

Gaining 6 points for one type of quest isn't that great because it also restricts you. Assuming the number of each type appearing in the game is roughly equal, you have fewer choices to gain the bonus. You are also forced to get more of a single type of adventurer.

Gaining 4 points for Undermountain/Skullport quests gives you more flexibility in the types of adventurers to go for. Additionally, you may score some buildings. Not bad at all.
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Alex Drazen
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Quote:
Gaining 6 points for one type of quest isn't that great


Depends what type of quest. Warfare is often easy to complete as people scuffle over Clerics and Wizards. Piety quests are the best "chaining" you can do, because they both use and award Clerics.

So the 6 point is either crazy good, decent (Skullduggery isn't too bad to get a lot of) or kind of meh (I find Arcana and Commerce to be the two most difficult things to complete a lot of).
 
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Sam Lam I Am
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Highland
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We took Xanathar out, but nobody in my group has suggested that any of the other Lords needs tweaking.

We deal 2 Lords to each player and let them choose one of the two, so if a player hates a particular lord, he can pass on it.
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Bob Wilson
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Thunkd wrote:
You're free to do as you like... but I tend to think that when you start tweaking and house-ruling, you are climbing down the rabbit hole of weirdness. Discussions of balance and strategy are difficult to have at that point because you're playing a different game than everyone else.

All too often I hear house rules implemented to fix things that aren't broken. A group is stuck in groupthink and doesn't understand that there are ways to counter something "over-powered" or ways to play the "underpowered" strategy to advantage. So instead of changing how they play, they "fix" the game. Which is fine... as long as you live in your little house-ruled universe and never venture out into discussions or play with new players.


Bryan, I think all of this is true, BUT... you have to pair this thinking with, "what if this really IS broken?"... and have to reason-out an answer.

Board game designers, developers and testers put in a lot of hard work to create the games we play, and we need to keep that in mind, but at the same time, we need to remember that they don't have some type of supernatural powers and that we, the mere mortals, can't achieve some of the same results through house fixes.
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Bryan Thunkd
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LordBobbio wrote:
Bryan, I think all of this is true, BUT... you have to pair this thinking with, "what if this really IS broken?"... and have to reason-out an answer.
Sure... sometimes things are broken. And if that's the case then I'm okay houseruling it... But you and I both know that people houserule "fixes" way more often than games are broken. Often they'll do it after a single play or two, before they "grok" how the game is supposed to be played. Since they're not capable of understanding how to play a particular strategy they just bend the game until it fits how they think the game should be played. And they never discover the way to counter the "overpowered" thing, or the strategy you need to use when playing the "underpowered" thing. Or never learn to recognize that you shouldn't play the game a certain way when the initial setup isn't favorable for that strategy.

If a game is really broken then generally there's a consensus about it online, and the designer will often come back an offer a fix. I'd be pretty hesitant about houseruling a game if there wasn't a clearcut indication that the game was broken.
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House Rules are nonsense.
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