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Subject: Kuropuppy's House Rules/Deck adjustments rss

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Matthew Freilich
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Hi there, I've come up with some house rules for Zombicide. Some may seem familiar, or may have appeared in other threads I haven't seen (so please be kind ^_^). Currently, I play with a semi-adjusted search deck and spawn deck with all of the possible expansions combined (Core, Mall, PO, and Dogz). This makes for a pretty tough game overall... either way, here goes...

First, how I adjusted my decks (there's so many cards I use two draw piles for each set):

Spawn deck: All dogz, toxic, and berserk cards are included. All basic spawn cards I only added in every card that has an abomination at any danger level, and up to 3 or 4 of any other card (since some have many doubles), and finally I included all extra turn and sewer event cards. When well shuffled, I have found that this makes for an incredibly diverse game. You'll have many hordes of mixed zombies causing you to need a lot of strategy on your turns. The only time this was REALLY nasty was drawing an abomination in blue when we opened our first building on the first turn.

Search deck: Generally I included every card of any item where there were less than three of. Most other cards; I only put three each in, except for gas, bottles, and anything that is used as a starter weapon... those have four in. I also included three of each upgrade type card (i.e. plenty of ammo), and the food item cards. Every single AHHHHHH! card is also included (eventually I'll also add wakkawakka's custom AHHH cards as well). I've also put all of the Pimpmobile weapons in the deck (there's a variant rule for this), and I took out ALL of the kukri cards (for some reason they just feel more "meh" than many other weapons). As a side note, I'm still working on my deck adjustments till I feel like I've gotten it right.

PIMPMOBILE CARDS: Just for fun, I've thrown all of these into the deck proper. You are only allowed to have one of these items, unless it's the Gunblade. If a pimpmobile is present; you may search it by going through the deck until you uncover the first pimpmobile weapon you find... you don't get to choose which you get.

MELEE WEAPONS: You may throw these at a range of 1 by discarding them. They still count as melee (for fighting berserkers), and retain their damage level. However; they only get one attack die (even if it normally has multiple attacks) UNLESS you have the +1 melee die skill (the weapon ricochets because you're that awesome?), and hits on +1 of it's normal hit number (i.e. if it hits on 3+, it now hits on 4+).

MOVEMENT: Following the normal movement rules, it costs 1 AP per zombie to move out of zone occupied by zombies. However; this AP amount caps out at 5. Therefore; it will take a survivor in yellow, with at least the 1 free movement AP skill to be able to escape a zone with more than three zombies but no more than 4. Zombivors will find this a little tougher since they lose their one free AP at yellow. Characters with "slippery" still get to ignore all of this; of course.

SPAWN POINTS: You may shut down a spawn point by building a barricade on top of it following the normal rules (just place the token on top). XP rules still apply for the survivors who helped. Any double activation will cause the barricade to break and spawns to continue as normal. You may only have a max of one or two (pending on preference) spawns shut down.

GUNS and SHOOTING: Any gun with a power of 2 or greater can open doors but you still have to make an attack roll (locks aren't really that easy to shoot off. Thanks Mythbusters!).

If you fire into a zone containing a survivor; you only hit the survivor on a miss, but for only one wound even on multiple attack weapon misses (imagine the survivor gets knocked down). If firing a weapon at in the SAME zone as another survivor, you cause a wound to that survivor on a roll of a 1 instead (due to closer range). These rules still allow you a chance to miss your buddies, but also still makes varied abilities and items useful.

A weapon with multiple die rolls can potentially hit more than one zone in a straight line, up to it's max range (not to be confused with trick shot). Say you have the Assault Rifle (range 0-2, 3 dice, 1 damage), and there's two zones in front of you. In the adjacent zone are two walkers, in the next zone is a single walker. You roll hits on all 3 dice, you take out the first two walkers, then the single one. Survivors in the zones still count as possible targets, and targeting priority is still in effect. If there was a fatty and a walker in the adjacent zone, the fatty would absorb the rest of the hits, keeping the walker in the further zone safe.

ITEMS: All food items are errata'd to give 1 experience if discarded (just like the cookies).

The gas mask item gives the survivor "hold your nose" as well as "toxic immunity". Hold your nose allows a survivor to immediately search in a zone containing a zombie he/she just killed (one search per turn still in effect).

The hockey mask item gives the survivor their choice of "bloodlust: melee", "frenzy: melee", or "reaper:melee" (I couldn't decide which is more thematic yet, so I went with a choice) in addition to it's normal usage. If you happen to have more than one hockey mask, the abilities don't stack (wearing two masks would just be silly ).

ABOMINATIONS: Toxic abominations remain the same.

Normal abominations also count as a spawn point (but only use the BLUE danger level...unless you're brave).

Berserk Abomination has two ACTIVATIONS just like runners/dogz (unlike the normal rule where it gets two movements).

Abominations can also break down doors and barricades to reach players, but use their entire activation to do so (just like runners on a double activation). Also see further Berserk Abomination rules below.

TRASH CAN ZONES: You may search in any outdoor zone containing a trash can or dumpster.

SKILLS: Toxic Immunity may also grant "hold your nose" and vise versa.

Instead of a pistol; Phil may start with a Magnum.
Instead of a baseball bat; Watts may start with a Nailbat.
(This is to bring a couple of base characters up to speed with promo characters such as Mike, Aunt Rose, and Brad, who start with a chainsaw, flamethrower, and Magnum respectively).

ROSS' BOWLING BALL: If you actually have this card (or printed it out), I made some observations and adjustments. First, it's a ranged weapon...I suppose it returns to you just like at a bowling alley. I feel it should count as a ranged/melee weapon being a huge, solid ball. My general rule to add to it, is that any skills that apply to ranged or melee weapons should be treated as saying "combat" in regards to the bowling ball. (This item is only available with the Ross promo survivor or by downloading off of the game's website: http://zombicide.com/img/Zomb-Ross-Bowling-Ball.jpg)

BERSERK ZOMBIES: Berserk Fatties and Abominations both have thicker armor, which causes any potential hits on them to ricochet and hit the survivor who shot at them (following the rules, you can't avoid shooting berserkers if you manage to roll enough dice to hit one in the same zone as your intended targets). If a berserk fatty or abomination has a hit scored on them, roll another die per hit. On a 5+ the survivor who made the attack takes a wound. This can also be made simpler by the survivor automatically taking a wound per hit instead.

Also, (taking into account my hit priority rules) a survivor who can deal 4 or more damage can flat out kill Berserk zombies. This is attainable by having a 3 damage ranged weapon and the +1 ranged/combat damage skill or at least multiple instances of said skill.

HIT PRIORITY: Going back to how things were originally, I've considered making the priority for zombiesorder as follows:

-Berserk walkers, Standard walkers, Toxic walkers
-Berserk fatties/Abom, Standard fatties/Abom, Toxic fatties/Abom
-Berserk runners, Standard runners, Toxic runners
-Dogz

Here's my reasoning for this. The idea is that slower zombies are in front of/easier to hit/blocking the other zombies. It makes sense to me that somehow (or even through some means of intelligence) the Berserk zombies are "tanking" for the rest...absorbing ALL ranged damage for the rest of the hoard and giving time for the Toxics to get into melee range for their explosion.

Granted; this does allow for a MUCH, MUCH higher difficulty curve, needing A LOT of strategy and player coordination. Consider how the rules are now... Toxics being first on the list almost trivializes their explosion as you'll be shooting them well before they can reach you in most cases. The Berserker walkers only really get to protect fatties on up which hurts their "usefulness" to the hoard. These changes are also why I'm allowing for thrown melee weapons, and my "extreme" ranged damage rules.

DESPERATION ATTACKS: Here's a interesting new ability. When a survivor has been mortally wounded, the survivor may make a desperation attack. Directly after the zombies make their killing attack, the survivor will discard a card as normal (If the discarded card is the only available weapon, the survivor may not continue with the attack). Next, they may make a normal attack as allowed by their weapon's stats, the only difference is there is a +1 penalty to hit, and the attack MUST be in the zone the survivor is currently occupying. This attack can still hit any other survivors in the zone as per usual. The survivor may even drop a molitov if they have one (in the same zone). Note that if the survivor DOES drop a molitov, it will be the fire that kills them and NOT the zombies; so they may NOT resurrect as a Zombivor! (I'll clean up these rules another time)

annnnnd there you have it. Those are all the house rules that I can recall at the moment. Just remember; as with any house rules, that all players must agree on the usage of these rules in any combination!


I'll greatly appreciate any feedback, and if people like my rules enough... I'll submit a PDF Thanks!

UPDATES:5/8 Removed all Toxic zombie abilities. Added new rulings for Born Leader. Made changes to spawn point barricades. Made changes to movement rules. Removed Berserk Abomination's 3rd activation. Cleared up info about "hold your nose". Added info concerning survivor "starts with" weapon skills. Added link to Ross' Bowling Ball download from Zombicide.com. Added desperation attacks.

5/22 Removed new Born Leader mechanics. I recently discovered the survivor didn't spend an action to give another survivor a free action; but instead simply generates a free action at no cost to themselves for another survivor once a turn. This is powerful enough as is in my opinion.
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Ian Clarke

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I love some and hate others, all good ideas though. Might steal a few.

I like most turning off the spawn points and abominations as spawn points.
 
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Matthew Freilich
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Ah, I'd be happy if you stole as many or as few of my ideas as you wished! Maybe you could elaborate on which ones you dislike? I can't say ALL of them are my favorites, and some haven't quite been tested fully or at all yet.

I did make a change to the hockey mask usage which I think is fun personally.

The shutting down spawn points idea came from a mix of the Grindhouse mission, and trying out simply shutting the points down in a normal game. We found that just removing a spawn from the map permanently was simply too easy, so I came up with a way to lock them down temporary like. Of course; if you have a lot of extra barricade tiles, a ton of minis, or don't use the extra activation cards...the barricades probably won't come down.

As for the Abomination spawn point thing. My stepson and I came up with that one day when we found the original Aboms just didn't seem as scary as they ought to be. Later we saw the King Rotbelly mission and realized we weren't the only ones to have such an idea. The only real difference is that in Rotbelly, the Abom is always on the map... where this is reserved for spawning Abominations.
 
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Ian Clarke

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You asked for comments, see below. Though bear in mine they are your house rules so you can happily ignore my comments!

Kuropuppy wrote:
Hi there, I've come up with some house rules for Zombicide. Some may seem familiar, or may have appeared in other threads I haven't seen (so please be kind ^_^). Currently, I play with a semi-adjusted search deck and spawn deck with all of the possible expansions combined (Core, Mall, PO, and Dogz). This makes for a pretty tough game overall... either way, here goes...

First, how I adjusted my decks (there's so many cards I use two draw piles for each set):

Spawn deck: All dogz, toxic, and berserk cards are included. All basic spawn cards I only added in every card that has an abomination at any danger level, and up to 3 or 4 of any other card (since some have many doubles), and finally I included all extra turn and sewer event cards. When well shuffled, I have found that this makes for an incredibly diverse game. You'll have many hordes of mixed zombies causing you to need a lot of strategy on your turns. The only time this was REALLY nasty was drawing an abomination in blue when we opened our first building on the first turn.

Search deck: Generally I included every card of any item where there were less than three of. Most other cards; I only put three each in, except for gas, bottles, and anything that is used as a starter weapon... those have four in. I also included three of each upgrade type card (i.e. plenty of ammo), and the food item cards. Every single AHHHHHH! card is also included (eventually I'll also add wakkawakka's custom AHHH cards as well). I've also put all of the Pimpmobile weapons in the deck (there's a variant rule for this), and I took out ALL of the kukri cards (for some reason they just feel more "meh" than many other weapons). As a side note, I'm still working on my deck adjustments till I feel like I've gotten it right.


With deck setup everyone does it differently, so I'll not comment on this.

Kuropuppy wrote:
PIMPMOBILE CARDS: Just for fun, I've thrown all of these into the deck proper. You are only allowed to have one of these items, unless it's the Gunblade. If a pimpmobile is present; you may search it by going through the deck until you uncover the first pimpmobile weapon you find... you don't get to choose which you get.


Given the size of the equipment deck I see no real issue with this other than that the scenario designer may not have intended you to have Pa's gun and thus left out the Pimp mobiles.

Kuropuppy wrote:
MELEE WEAPONS: You may throw these at a range of 1 by discarding them. They still count as melee (for fighting berserkers), and retain their damage level. However; they only get one attack die (even if it normally has multiple attacks) UNLESS you have the +1 melee die skill (the weapon ricochets because you're that awesome?), and hits on +1 of it's normal hit number (i.e. if it hits on 3+, it now hits on 4+).


Interest and thematic, I'll mention it to the guys I Game with and see if they fancy trying it.

Kuropuppy wrote:
MOVEMENT: You may move out of a zone containing any amount of zombies over one for a flat 3AP (one zombie still costs 2). I did this because my spawn deck causes so many hordes that the normal zone escape rules would prove impossible. This does make things a little easier at times, but not by a huge amount in most situations.


My opinion is it makes it too easy to get away from the horde, given your priority sequence for kills below I can see why you'd add this in, but I don't like it purely because it reduces "peril" in the game and without that the game is less fun (for me at least).

Kuropuppy wrote:
SPAWN POINTS: You may shut down a spawn point by building a barricade on top of it following the normal rules (just place the token on top). XP rules still apply for the survivors who helped. Any double activation will cause the barricade to break and spawns to continue as normal.


As I said I like this one, would probably put it in specific scenarios rather than all and limit how many could be shut down.

Kuropuppy wrote:
GUNS and SHOOTING: Any gun with a power of 2 or greater can open doors but you still have to make an attack roll (locks aren't really that easy to shoot off. Thanks Mythbusters!).


I dislike, I think it's just a change too far for my tastes. Nothing wrong with it, just don't like it.

Kuropuppy wrote:
If you fire into a zone containing a survivor; you only hit the survivor on a miss, but for only one wound even on multiple attack weapon misses (imagine the survivor gets knocked down). If firing a weapon at in the SAME zone as another survivor, you cause a wound to that survivor on a roll of a 1 instead (due to closer range). These rules still allow you a chance to miss your buddies, but also still makes varied abilities and items useful.


I think this makes shooting too easy. Thus I'd not use it. The games rules as set don't make a lot of sense shooting wise, but are there for balance and I think this unbalances it. Maybe I just don't like it though

Kuropuppy wrote:
A weapon with multiple die rolls can potentially hit more than one zone in a straight line, up to it's max range (not to be confused with trick shot). Say you have the Assault Rifle (range 0-2, 3 dice, 1 damage), and there's two zones in front of you. In the adjacent zone are two walkers, in the next zone is a single walker. You roll hits on all 3 dice, you take out the first two walkers, then the single one. Survivors in the zones still count as possible targets, and targeting priority is still in effect. If there was a fatty and a walker in the adjacent zone, the fatty would absorb the rest of the hits, keeping the walker in the further zone safe.


Again I think this makes things too easy, but again thats my opinion!

Kuropuppy wrote:
ITEMS: All food items are erratta'd to give 1 experience if discarded (just like the cookies).


I'm ambivalent about this one.

I'd probably make them spend and action with a pan to cook rice or canned food and have it heal a wound instead.

Kuropuppy wrote:
The gas mask item gives the survivor "hold your nose" as well as "toxic immunity".


I see where you are coming from, makes sense thematically, but I think the item is already very powerful, I could have done with it last night when I was eaten by 11 toxic walkers. So from that viewpoint I don't like it.

Kuropuppy wrote:
The hockey mask item gives the survivor their choice of "bloodlust: melee", "frenzy: melee", or "reaper:melee" (I couldn't decide which is more thematic yet, so I went with a choice) in addition to it's normal usage. If you happen to have more than one hockey mask, the abilities don't stack (wearing two masks would just be silly ).


This one on the other hand doesn't seem too much, while the mask is useful it's far from essential, this pushes it towards essential, but doesn't take it all the way there. I like it.

Kuropuppy wrote:
ABOMINATIONS: Toxic abomination's explosion also sends out it's spikes, this causes 2 damage to a survivor (also see explosion rules further down).


I think this makes them too dangerious, might add it in for specific scenarios, but as a general rule it's too deadly. In effect it means without a gas mask he becomes unstoppable in melee. It's rare you're willing to to fight him without a gas mask and with this rule you'd be dead (or Zombivored if you use them). Meaning you need Pa's gun or the Magnum with hollow points or to ignore him.

Kuropuppy wrote:
Normal abominations also count as a spawn point (but only use the BLUE danger level...unless you're brave).


As I said I like this one, again I'd probably use it as a special abomination rather than all though. However with it only being Blue level it's not overpowered (IMO)

Kuropuppy wrote:
Berserk Abomination has two or three ACTIVATIONS just like runners/dogz (unlike the normal rule where it gets two movements, and note the three activations are for the brave or foolhardy).


I'd not use this generally, but would for some scenarios. With his two movement points he's a nuisance and hard to get away from, with two actions I think he'd be too much.

Kuropuppy wrote:
Another idea for the Toxic Abomination is that it actually has a ranged attack. Instead of moving into the zone with a survivor, it shoots spikes at the survivor(s) in an adjacent zone as it's activation causing a wound.


Again I'd see this more a special scenario thing rather than a general rule. Given the difficulty in killing him I think you'd find yourself being chased around the board being slowly killed off.

My thoughts for all these Abomination specials go back to last night. We opened a seven room building on Blue and spawned the Green and Brown abominations (with the Brown at the door the Green a few rooms in) and then on the first set of spawn point spawns (still on blue) with spawned the grey one. It was hard to keep ahead of them with these rules and no equipment we'd have been dead much quicker than we actually were.

Kuropuppy wrote:
Alternatively; (since it doesn't fully make sense a zombie would be shooting at you rather than attempting to eat you) upon death, the Toxic Abomination explodes with tremendous force, sending it's spikes out to all adjacent zones dealing a wound to at least one survivor in any of those zones (players decide which survivor gets hit). Skills and items that allow for negating wounds still are in effect against this attack.


Too deadly IMO.

Kuropuppy wrote:
Abominations can also break down doors and barricades to reach players, but use their entire activation to do so (just like runners on a double activation). Also see further Berserk Abomination rules below.


Often wondered why they don't do this anyway, so makes sense.

Kuropuppy wrote:
TRASH CAN ZONES: You may search in any outdoor zone containing a trash can or dumpster.


I like this one, minor change and standing on the street to search has it's own risks.

Kuropuppy wrote:
SKILLS: Toxic Immunity may also grant "hold your nose" and vise versa. Instead of a pistol; Phil may start with a Magnum. Instead of a baseball bat; Watts may start with a Nailbat.


I think all three make the skills/characters too powerful.

Kuropuppy wrote:
ROSS' BOWLING BALL: If you actually have this card (or printed it out), I made some observations and adjustments. First, it's a ranged weapon...I suppose it returns to you just like at a bowling alley. I feel it should count as a ranged/melee weapon being a huge, solid ball. My general rule to add to it, is that any skills that apply to ranged or melee weapons should be treated as saying "combat" in regards to the bowling ball.


Not seen it or used it so no comment, but does seem odd that it would come back, you could go and get it maybe but come back seems odd.

Kuropuppy wrote:
TOXIC ZOMBIES: Toxic Fatties and Abominations both cause damage to all units in the same zone as them (due to exploding with more force). The fatty's explosion has a damage of 1, and can kill all standard walkers, runners, and dogz in the same zone (following ranged hit priority). The abomination's explosion has a damage of 2 (as stated earlier), and can also kill standard fatties (following ranged hit priority). Fellow toxic zombies and berserk zombies are both immune to this spray. However; survivors with toxic immunity are immune to the toxic fatty spray, but take 1 damage from the toxic abomination instead.


I think this is too powerful and would use it.

Kuropuppy wrote:
BERSERK ZOMBIES: Berserk Fatties and Abominations both have thicker armor, which causes any potential hits on them to ricochet and hit the survivor who shot at them (following the rules, you can't avoid shooting berserkers if you manage to roll enough dice to hit one in the same zone as your intended targets). If a berserk fatty or abomination has a hit scored on them, roll another die per hit. On a 5+ the survivor who made the attack takes a wound. This can also be made simpler by the survivor automatically taking a wound per hit instead.


Is this for ranged or all attacks? If for all it's too powerful. Might use it in a scenario if ranged only, probably wouldn't use it generally.

Kuropuppy wrote:
Also, (taking into account my hit priority rules) a survivor who can deal 4 or more damage can flat out kill Berserk zombies. This is attainable by having a 3 damage ranged weapon and the +1 ranged/combat damage skill or at least multiple instances of said skill.


It this for shooting?

Kuropuppy wrote:
HIT PRIORITY: Going back to how things were originally, I've considered making the priority for zombiesorder as follows:

-Berserk walkers, Standard walkers, Toxic walkers
-Berserk fatties/Abom, Standard fatties/Abom, Toxic fatties/Abom
-Berserk runners, Standard runners, Toxic runners
-Dogz

Here's my reasoning for this. The idea is that slower zombies are in front of/easier to hit/blocking the other zombies. It makes sense to me that somehow (or even through some means of intelligence) the Berserk zombies are "tanking" for the rest...absorbing ALL ranged damage for the rest of the hoard and giving time for the Toxics to get into melee range for their explosion.

Granted; this does allow for a much higher difficulty curve, needing A LOT of strategy and player coordination. Consider how the rules are now... Toxics being first on the list almost trivializes their explosion as you'll be shooting them well before they can reach you in most cases. The Berserker walkers only really get to protect fatties on up which hurts their "usefulness" to the hoard. These changes are also why I'm allowing for thrown melee weapons, and my "extreme" ranged damage rules.


I think the current rules are intended to allow you to thin out the toxics and normals at range, this change would be deadly against mixed groups. It would make the gas masks essential as opposed to nice to have. Even as it is mixed groups with Fatties and runners are deadly. I don't like it.

Hope that helps.
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Matthew Freilich
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Falseemp wrote:
You asked for comments, see below. Though bear in mine they are your house rules so you can happily ignore my comments!


I greatly appreciate you taking the time to give me such insightful feedback! Below I'll give you some explanations. I also made quite a few changes to things in my original post based on your suggestions.

Falseemp wrote:
Given the size of the equipment deck I see no real issue with this other than that the scenario designer may not have intended you to have Pa's gun and thus left out the Pimp mobiles.


To me, the pimpmobile weapons are somewhat underwhelming. Pa's gun is really the only very powerful one. I'll consider keeping it out of the deck if it proves to be too much.

Falseemp wrote:
My opinion is it makes it too easy to get away from the horde, given your priority sequence for kills below I can see why you'd add this in, but I don't like it purely because it reduces "peril" in the game and without that the game is less fun (for me at least).


I made some serious adjustments to escaping zombies to make things a bit more "balanced". Now only the most agile of survivors can escape from crowds of zombies.

Falseemp wrote:
As I said I like this one, would probably put it in specific scenarios rather than all and limit how many could be shut down.


I added an addendum to this about limiting the amount of barricades. This definitely will help prevent abuse.

Falseemp wrote:
I think this makes shooting too easy. Thus I'd not use it. The games rules as set don't make a lot of sense shooting wise, but are there for balance and I think this unbalances it. Maybe I just don't like it though


I'm the opposite. I just can't imagine so easily shooting your friend (or running them over in a car). Granted, the survivors may be dealing with a pretty crazy situation and one can accidentally shoot a partner in a tussle. I feel it's a bit more realistic to make it more of a chance to hit your buddy than a hard and fast rule.

Falseemp wrote:
Again I think this makes things too easy, but again thats my opinion!


I agree that shooting into multiple straight line zones might make things too easy. We tried it out the other day and the opportunity to test it only really came up a couple of times. So far it doesn't appear to be TOO overpowered. More testing is needed

Falseemp wrote:
I see where you are coming from, makes sense thematically, but I think the item is already very powerful, I could have done with it last night when I was eaten by 11 toxic walkers. So from that viewpoint I don't like it.


I'm not 100% sure we're on the same page with this one. All "Hold your nose" allows a survivor to do is search in a zone where they just killed a zombie. Even if you had the gas mask with my house rule, there's nothing the gas mask could have done to save you.

Falseemp wrote:
I think this makes them too dangerious, might add it in for specific scenarios, but as a general rule it's too deadly. In effect it means without a gas mask he becomes unstoppable in melee. It's rare you're willing to to fight him without a gas mask and with this rule you'd be dead (or Zombivored if you use them). Meaning you need Pa's gun or the Magnum with hollow points or to ignore him.


I decided to totally remove all of the Toxic zombie powers. In the end they're fine just the way they are.

Falseemp wrote:
I'd not use this generally, but would for some scenarios. With his two movement points he's a nuisance and hard to get away from, with two actions I think he'd be too much.


I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who tries giving the Berserk Abom two full activations. I know it makes him pretty deadly, but I feel it's a bit more in line with him being "berserk" in the first place.

Falseemp wrote:
My thoughts for all these Abomination specials go back to last night. We opened a seven room building on Blue and spawned the Green and Brown abominations (with the Brown at the door the Green a few rooms in) and then on the first set of spawn point spawns (still on blue) with spawned the grey one. It was hard to keep ahead of them with these rules and no equipment we'd have been dead much quicker than we actually were.


WOW! That's an awful way to get started in a mission. I certainly could imagine being turned off by adding abilities to Abominations if you got all three out on the board.

Falseemp wrote:
I think all three make the skills/characters too powerful.


Not that it changes much, but I added some info to explain my reasoning for the skill changes.

Falseemp wrote:
Not seen it or used it so no comment, but does seem odd that it would come back, you could go and get it maybe but come back seems odd.


I added a link to the actual Bowling Ball card for anyone who wanted to check it out

Falseemp wrote:
Is this for ranged or all attacks? If for all it's too powerful. Might use it in a scenario if ranged only, probably wouldn't use it generally.


This is only for ranged attacks (guns).

Falseemp wrote:
It this for shooting?


Yup. This rule is for making a gun powerful enough to take out a berserker. I figure a gun that manages to have a power of 4 should be strong enough to crack their armor.

Falseemp wrote:
I think the current rules are intended to allow you to thin out the toxics and normals at range, this change would be deadly against mixed groups. It would make the gas masks essential as opposed to nice to have. Even as it is mixed groups with Fatties and runners are deadly. I don't like it.


I agree that changing around the hit priority adds an insane degree of difficulty. I don't necessarily think it's that great of a rule change, but it might be fun to toy around with.
 
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Ian Clarke

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Kuropuppy wrote:
Falseemp wrote:
I see where you are coming from, makes sense thematically, but I think the item is already very powerful, I could have done with it last night when I was eaten by 11 toxic walkers. So from that viewpoint I don't like it.


I'm not 100% sure we're on the same page with this one. All "Hold your nose" allows a survivor to do is search in a zone where they just killed a zombie. Even if you had the gas mask with my house rule, there's nothing the gas mask could have done to save you.


I had two survivors in the zone, each had claw hammer (3 dice on 5+), each was Orange (so 4 actions) and each had +1 to die roll melee (so 5+ becomes 4+)

So I'd have used one action to swap stuff so the first guy had 2 hammers and the gas mask (which I didn't have) then have up to three attacks (6 dice on a 4+, average 9 kills) then have the other guy swap to the 2 hammers and mask and have 3 more attacks, which would have likely killed all 11 toxics.

Getting back to my point though I think the gas mask is good enough as is and doesn't need anything extra added to it. I see thematically that having it on would allow you to hold your nose, I just think the item is strong enough without it. It is IMO an item I'd very rarely throw away.

That said I could see something added to the game, maybe a hasmat suit? that gives the "hold your nose" ability and maybe something else.

Kuropuppy wrote:
Falseemp wrote:
I think this makes them too dangerious, might add it in for specific scenarios, but as a general rule it's too deadly. In effect it means without a gas mask he becomes unstoppable in melee. It's rare you're willing to to fight him without a gas mask and with this rule you'd be dead (or Zombivored if you use them). Meaning you need Pa's gun or the Magnum with hollow points or to ignore him.


I decided to totally remove all of the Toxic zombie powers. In the end they're fine just the way they are.

Falseemp wrote:
I'd not use this generally, but would for some scenarios. With his two movement points he's a nuisance and hard to get away from, with two actions I think he'd be too much.


I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who tries giving the Berserk Abom two full activations. I know it makes him pretty deadly, but I feel it's a bit more in line with him being "berserk" in the first place.


To be honest I've used it in a scenario I'm working on and I'm sure people will have misread the rules and always play him like that. Certainly make the riot shield or tough handy!

Kuropuppy wrote:
Falseemp wrote:
Not seen it or used it so no comment, but does seem odd that it would come back, you could go and get it maybe but come back seems odd.


I added a link to the actual Bowling Ball card for anyone who wanted to check it out :)


Oops missed the link :(

Kuropuppy wrote:
Falseemp wrote:
It this for shooting?


Yup. This rule is for making a gun powerful enough to take out a berserker. I figure a gun that manages to have a power of 4 should be strong enough to crack their armor.


Sounds like a reasonable idea then, not often are you going to be able to do it so shouldn't be unbalancing. I can only think about 1 dice weapons that can do this are there any multi die ones?
 
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Matthew Freilich
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Just a fast reply. I can see what you mean about the whole gas mask thing. I guess it depends on how many Toxic zombies you see during gameplay. If there's a lot... the gas mask is great as-is. If you're not getting many... you may as well remove the masks from the deck or give it a secondary usage. A great item for "hold your nose" alone would probably be a clothespin lol.

I didn't put a link to the bowling ball till AFTER your extensive reply, so there's no way you could have seen it originally .

As for multi-dice guns that could be easily brought up to 4 damage, I'm really not sure. Technically you could do it with any gun, provided you can get more than one instance of the +1 ranged damage skill or find some combo of items that would make it work. All of the ranged weapons I know of that start at 3 damage to begin with I think all only have one shot (unless you have a skill that gives +1 die). wow

P.S. Did you see my re-working of the Born Leader skill and the "desparation attack"?
 
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Ian Clarke

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I'd missed the reworking of Born-Leader and "desperation attack"

Born-Leader :- Having used the rule as written it flows well and assuming the person who has it remembers to give it out (we seem to forget a bit!) it works well. The suggested change looks okay, I suspect the only issue about it would be people forgetting they can leave using it until later. Other than that it looks fine.

"desperation attack" I'm assuming this is a skill a character has available to them rather than a general thing all characters can do. If so it looks good, not too over powered. The Idea they could drop a Molotov is very thematic too. I like this one, though I know if I had it on a character at blue I'd find myself moaning! (Damn I wanted +1 Move Action, or better yet lucky!)
 
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Matthew Freilich
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Well, the "desperation attack" thing was meant more as a general ability anyone could use. It seems interesting to have it as a skill; however. I would also hate to have it in blue. As a survivor specific skill... It might actually be better if it was more retaliatory, like you could counterattack every time you're attacked (while still taking damage). I wonder which side of the card the skill would be better suited for... survivor or zombivor?
 
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Teskal Flink
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I think all the rules you changed must be looked together. To criticize them one by one, would not do it.



If I have not forgotten something, my card deck looks like:
- every S1+TCM+PO card up to four cards, if available.
- all food, water, gas, bottles, aaahg cards

Exceptions:
- only 2 Chainsaws
- only 1 Assault Rifle
- 3 Fire Axes, because one is in the starting equipment
- 1 Crowbar, because one is in the starting equipment (did I lost some?)
- 6 pistols
- no pimp mobile cards
- no ultra red weapons
- no pans
- no gas masks, don't use TCM in the moment
- no dogs
- no kukris, don't like them either, I use them only if a charakter starts with them
- no hatchets
- no claw hammers
- no night sticks


Especially the last 3 have statistics I do not like.
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Matthew Freilich
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Teskal wrote:
If I have not forgotten something, my card deck looks like:
- every S1+TCM+PO card up to four cards, if available.
- all food, water, gas, bottles, aaahg cards

Exceptions:....Especially the last 3 have statistics I do not like.


Thanks for the reply. Our decks are similar up to a point. I might actually remove a few more of the stronger equipment items. I also don't include pans in the deck, and tweaked the amount of starter weapons. I'm glad I'm not the only one to not like Kukris, but what is it you don't like about the hatchets, claw hammers, and nightsticks? Also how come you don't include ultra reds and dogs (out of curiosity)?
 
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Ian Clarke

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We have everything in the deck, though we don't tend to play with the dogs as they are a bit too good (in our opinion).

The reason is that that way the good stuff is in there, but there's a load of rubbish too. As you can image any scenario that requires us to find something specific (Canned Food, Water and Rice for example) can take a while.

But that's why I said each to there own earlier in the thread, cos what I like you might hate.
 
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Matthew Freilich
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It makes sense to throw everything into the deck for challenge purpose... I just decided to tailor it a bit. If you DO like the dogs, but think they're a bit overpowered... you could always only put a few dog cards in the deck so they'd be very rare to find .
 
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Teskal Flink
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Kuropuppy wrote:
Teskal wrote:
If I have not forgotten something, my card deck looks like:
- every S1+TCM+PO card up to four cards, if available.
- all food, water, gas, bottles, aaahg cards

Exceptions:....Especially the last 3 have statistics I do not like.


Thanks for the reply. Our decks are similar up to a point. I might actually remove a few more of the stronger equipment items. I also don't include pans in the deck, and tweaked the amount of starter weapons. I'm glad I'm not the only one to not like Kukris, but what is it you don't like about the hatchets, claw hammers, and nightsticks? Also how come you don't include ultra reds and dogs (out of curiosity)?


I do not play with dogs in the moment, because I do not have played every scenario of the Z1 Box.

I have no use for UR Weapons. If I start to play with UR Level, I will have UR Weapons in my set.

The claw hammer use 3 dice to hit, which is a little odd, why so much dice and for this weapon? I just do not like it.

The nighstick, is again a blunt weapon and I'm not sure if I would really use it to damage the skull, but I have no real experience with this weapon (or any other!!!), I can't say if it would be really useful, so I removed it. Personally I think the Crowbar has a bigger chance to break the skull, if it is possible with a baseball bat, I do not know, but I think the baseball bat is cool... :-)

About the Hatchets I'm not sure anymore why I didn't like them, but there are already many weapons in the deck

These reason do not need to be logical, because there are already many weapons in the game. Personally I do not like the statistiks for the Katana, but if I will every buy sleeves, I will make my own Katanas. :-)


I changed my deck already a little bit.
Reasons:
- I got to often food or Aaaagh cards.
- And I want the chance to get sometimes sets!
- Another reason was, I do not want to spent to much time for searching, so I can proceed with killing the growing number of zombies. But I search also later in the game if I have an action to spend.


Equipment Deck:
- every S1+TCM+PO card up to four cards, if available.

Exceptions:
- only 2 Chainsaws
- only 1 Assault Rifle (could change if I use Toxic Zombies)
- 1 Will's Rocket Launcher
- 3 Fire Axes (one is in the starting equipment deck)
- 1 Crowbar (because one is in the starting equipment)
- 6 pistols
- no pimp mobile cards (they are in the pimp mobile)
- no ultra red weapons
- no pans
- no gas masks (don't use TCM in the moment)
- no dogs (but will use them in the future)
- no kukris (I use them only if a charakter starts with them)
- no claw hammers
- no night sticks
- no hatchets

About powerfull weapons:
Ok, some are powerfull, but seldom and if a charakter has them, they will get fast experience with them, which is dangerous, too!

It is possible that I will increase the Sawed Off to six cards.
 
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Matthew Freilich
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Very interesting observations . I would definitely say that a nightstick could bust open the head of a zombie (they're very versatile weapons), plus as a starter weapon it's good for it's discard ability. I have rarely had a chance to use the pimpmobile and ultrared weapons myself, but I'm trying to figure out ways to make them rewards similar to how the VIP zombies will work in S3. I definitely need to go back through my deck and figure out what it is that I don't like so much. I agree with you that too much downtime searching isn't as enjoyable as going around fighting.
 
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