Nicholas Eng
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as per the subject...is there a max deck limit for the mystic and heavy infantry stacks, or is it just how many you want to put on there? i recently got into the game and bought everything...and the two piles are rather sizable when sleeved. the faq only says once it's depleted that's it, but nothing about max deck size for those stacks...do you guys have any ideas, or personal preferences? the internet says 30/30 but that's also from threads back when there was only return of the fallen so that doesn't help me much with 4 more expansions after that...thanks in advance!
 
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David Jones
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There is no limit. There was another thread somewhere explaining that in an official tournament, they were sleeving Infantry and Mystics for some of the tables that were running out.
 
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I too recall that there should be no limit. Even in a 6p game. I played the iOS version which goes up to 4p, and they implement those stacks without a number, so it truly is unlimited.


If they're becoming too unwieldy, leave some of them in the box, and just make mention that they're available for purchase, rather than them blocking the view of a player, and even toppling over.
 
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davypi wrote:
There is no limit.

Unfortunately, this is incorrect. Many players incorrectly look to the iOS game for rulings, but some aspects of the iOS game simply can't translate to the physical game. "Infinite cards" is one of those aspects.

Technically, there is no rule, so you can do whatever makes you feel comfortable. However, if you own multiple sets and you're inclined to play a 6-player game, I'd go with a total of 50 Mystics/Heavy Infantry. There's no sense in encouraging players to purchase cards that may ultimately flood a player's deck, so I'd keep those stacks as small as possible.

A 4+ player game can quickly devolve into a game with 2 people doing well and the other players simply watching. To mitigate that possibility, you want to place people in a position where they're making purchases from the Center Row, not the Always Available decks. This keeps the game moving and opens up opportunities for everyone. With that being said, you may want to consider making the Always Available decks even smaller than 50 apiece.

At the end of the day, do whatever you feel will be the most fun for everyone!
 
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Huuuze wrote:
davypi wrote:
There is no limit.

Unfortunately, this is incorrect. Many players incorrectly look to the iOS game for rulings, but some aspects of the iOS game simply can't translate to the physical game. "Infinite cards" is one of those aspects.

Technically, there is no rule, so you can do whatever makes you feel comfortable. However, if you own multiple sets and you're inclined to play a 6-player game, I'd go with a total of 50 Mystics/Heavy Infantry. There's no sense in encouraging players to purchase cards that may ultimately flood a player's deck, so I'd keep those stacks as small as possible.

A 4+ player game can quickly devolve into a game with 2 people doing well and the other players simply watching. To mitigate that possibility, you want to place people in a position where they're making purchases from the Center Row, not the Always Available decks. This keeps the game moving and opens up opportunities for everyone. With that being said, you may want to consider making the Always Available decks even smaller than 50 apiece.

At the end of the day, do whatever you feel will be the most fun for everyone!


In my experiences, the only time I've seen people buy heavily from Mystics and HI was when the CR had nothing to purchase. Cards cost $6+, although $7+ is harder to occur, it definitely puts it out of buying range for a while. Combined that with monsters that are 5+ power, sometimes 6+. I can see 8 to 24 HI purchased just to deal with that situation alone.

If nothing else, Mystics and HI are bought to gain an honor each. It feels wrong to deny a rune player a way to get honor when power players can always pop Cultists/Fanatics.

Has your 6p experiences been overall contrary otherwise?
 
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ackmondual wrote:
Has your 6p experiences been overall contrary otherwise?

Personally, I don't advise people playing games with more than 4 players. A 6P experience usually turns into a "luck-fest", with the unlucky players simply tuning out. It *can* work, but in my experience, those times are few and far between.

FWIW, I spoke with the OP on the Ascension Fans Facebook page and recommended playing two 3P games or a pair of 2P/4P games.

All in all, the answer to the original question is to do whatever he feels comfortable doing -- there is no hard-and-fast rule for the number of Always Available cards.
 
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Nicholas Eng
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yea all of your responses were things i gleaned from googling, but i was trying to find out what people did in a practical sense instead of unlimited or whatever i felt like doing. which is a little overwhelming for a new player with so many cards available. the admin of the ascension fans facebook page suggested i scale the always available cards at 10/player, which sounds pretty sensible and limits the problem of flooded decks and only buying those cards.

i also was asking because i played a 5 player game last saturday with the core game only (i know, 1 player too many) and we ran into the problem of no more always available cards. we also ran into a problem where all the rune cards came out first and most of the monsters came out later. it also just so happened the heavy hitters came out all at once. players ended up not being able to do anything except buy heavy infantry to try and hopefully tackle them later before anyone else did, which lead to buying mystics because it became a race to actually afford heavy infantry. i understand this is the flooded deck problem, but the problem came from the fact we got screwed in the center row and not from being always available buy-happy.

as for it not scaling well to 5-6 players, i can't say just yet how i feel but we didn't end up with the lopsided problem mentioned above. or at least not so badly people felt sidelined. our group is typically 4-6 and we don't like breaking up into smaller game groups so being able to scale well is important to us. we also couldn't help but think that if we combined the blocks together it would mitigate the scaling issue, but i couldn't find any threads via google if this was successful or not, just that people thought it was a bad idea either way. while i sat there sleeving over 1000 cards though, it did seem that it might work out with the newer mechanics and events to mix things up as well as more playable cards. i was worried the deck would be too unwieldy with so many cards but other than one person in a thread mentioning that they removed some card multiples i couldn't find anything on what people might've actually removed.

sorry for the massive reply, but i've got so many questions lol
 
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Rymel wrote:
as for it not scaling well to 5-6 players, i can't say just yet how i feel but we didn't end up with the lopsided problem mentioned above. or at least not so badly people felt sidelined. our group is typically 4-6 and we don't like breaking up into smaller game groups so being able to scale well is important to us. we also couldn't help but think that if we combined the blocks together it would mitigate the scaling issue, but i couldn't find any threads via google if this was successful or not, just that people thought it was a bad idea either way. while i sat there sleeving over 1000 cards though, it did seem that it might work out with the newer mechanics and events to mix things up as well as more playable cards. i was worried the deck would be too unwieldy with so many cards but other than one person in a thread mentioning that they removed some card multiples i couldn't find anything on what people might've actually removed.

sorry for the massive reply, but i've got so many questions lol


I play with CotG, RotF, SoS, IH, and the first 5 promo packs on iOS, and think it's just fine. A nice convenience of course is the comp taking care of all the shuffling and bookkeeping. I did play with 3 or 4 sets one time, and while it was unwieldy having such a large Portal deck, it was still fun. The "blocks" are really relevant for specific mechanics, and the only one that stands out the most is the Energy/Dark Energy ones from RoV and DU. The events in SoS and IH can at least be houseruled, if not using the blank event cards in IH.
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Huuuze wrote:

Unfortunately, this is incorrect. Many players incorrectly look to the iOS game for rulings, but some aspects of the iOS game simply can't translate to the physical game. "Infinite cards" is one of those aspects.


http://ascensiongame.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1662#p558...

I'm not referring to an iOS tournament. I'm referring to a physical game tournament run by Gary Games. Not really sure how more official it can get. I mean, yes, if you physically don't have enough cards in your set, then you can't buy any more for your deck. But otherwise, there is no intended limit.

Quote:
if you own multiple sets and you're inclined to play a 6-player game, I'd go with a total of 50 Mystics/Heavy Infantry.


Personally, I'd go with a number evenly divisible by 6 so that each player can have an equal amount in the bizarre situation that competition for these cards escalates. 60 tends to work nice because its divisible by all player counts.
 
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davypi wrote:
I'm not referring to an iOS tournament. I'm referring to a physical game tournament run by Gary Games. Not really sure how more official it can get. I mean, yes, if you physically don't have enough cards in your set, then you can't buy any more for your deck. But otherwise, there is no intended limit.

I was the head judge at the GenCon 2013 World Championship and I work closely with Stone Blade Entertainment. I cannot vouch for how they ran the tournament in 2012 (which was the first championship), but I can say that approach would not (and will not) happen beyond that first year. The Always Available decks are limited.

Rymel wrote:
the admin of the ascension fans facebook page suggested i scale the always available cards at 10/player, which sounds pretty sensible and limits the problem of flooded decks and only buying those cards.

That's me.

Rymel wrote:
i also was asking because i played a 5 player game last saturday with the core game only (i know, 1 player too many) and we ran into the problem of no more always available cards.
If you run into the problem of no more AA cards, just keep playing until someone can make the Center Row do something. Granted, this problem was likely more of an artifact from playing just the base game with 5P, but if you can't do something on a turn, buying a Mystic or Heavy shouldn't be the default behavior.

Like I said previously, there's nothing stopping you from adding every Mystic and Heavy to your games (except maybe a tired arm from the sleeving -- ). All in all, if you're having fun with your friends, that's what it's all about.
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Nicholas Eng
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oh, hey there Huuuze. sorry you have to deal with this question again whistle

i ended up going with the 10 AA cards per player limit. i'll decide with more playthroughs whether i want to add more or not, but i'm not stressing it. i'll also give an all-sets playthrough a chance before i decide whether it's better to isolate them or not, but the DU expansion did include rules for throwing all the sets together, as well as extra energy shards so hopefully it works out well.

i sat sleeving for 2 hours...started at a decent pace and quickly became a grueling crawl of determination...soblue. it figures after sleeving all of them, enough are unused to take up an entire row in the collection box.

re: playing til someone can do something in the center row...that's pretty much what we did, except we didn't think about simply doing nothing and not buying AA cards. i'll bring it up next game to the group.

i made a thread here for how i organized my box, which shows how the box is filled without the extra apprentices, mystics, heavies and extra honor already. i also don't have any of the promos yet...i hope i can still find some of the out of print ones. this game is quite large sleeved...

thanks for everyone's input!
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Michael Boucher
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My apologizes in advance if this is considered necro-threading.

According to https://stoneblade.zendesk.com/entries/62393286-Are-Mystics-...-

"Many players enjoy mixing their Ascension sets together. Considering each set comes with additional Mystics and Heavy Infantry, it's difficult to determine how many should be included in a single, "mashed up" game.

In short, if you're playing with 2 players, the limit is 30 Mystics and 30 Heavy Infantry. If either pile runs out, you cannot add to it. If you're playing more than 2 players, we recommend including 10 additional Mystics and 10 additional Heavy Infantry per player. In other words, if you were playing a 4 player game, you'd include 50 Mystics and 50 Heavy Infantry."
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