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Subject: Most Recognized Least Favorite Game rss

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Inspired by user "ncree"...

Band of Brothers: Screaming Eagles

I find the combat system and morale system to be surprisingly fiddly and difficult for what reads as a simple game - hated playing it.

They also printed the decoy markers upside down, making use of them useless as they are easy to spot; the convex side should be the topside, the opposite is true. Counters are not flat - those being no exception.

Heard Ghost Panzer fixed the issues - but have not tried it.
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Rusty McFisticuffs
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Steve Arthur
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Napoleon's Triumph
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Arnaud MOYON
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No Retreat! The North African Front

And agree with the Band of Brothers: Screaming Eagles comments btw.
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Sean McCormick
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Funny, as Band of Brothers and Napoleon's Triumph would probably qualify as my top two designs of the last ten years.

The Napoleonic Wars. It's bad history and it's not remotely interesting game play. I'm really sort of perplexed as to what the draw is here.
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Bill Lawson
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Combat Commander Series
I don't like CDG games and don't like tactical games. This has it all gulp
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Rex Stites
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Commands & Colors: Ancients
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James
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The Hunters: German U-Boats at War, 1939-43
I am not engaged by it at all. I quite liked it at first but I reckon that was simply a pathetic susceptibility to hype.

Also, I agree about Band of Brothers. System wont settle down in my head despite appearing simple.

But, people love these games.
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Darrell Hanning
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billyboy wrote:
Combat Commander Series
I don't like CDG games and don't like tactical games. This has it all gulp


Same here, but for a slightly different reason.

If I want totally random events controlling what happens, I'll go play in traffic.
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Tom Willcockson
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billyboy wrote:
Combat Commander Series
I don't like CDG games and don't like tactical games. This has it all gulp


Well I bought them all but I just haven't been able to get into them although I haven't given up. I don't mind the cards creating fog of war and not allowing you to do certain things if you don't have the card, but what bothers me about it is that you cycle through them so fast it distracts and seems disconnected from the action on the board. Doesn't bother me as much in a regular CDG because you go through your hand much more slowly. Frankly I just would rather roll dice than use the cards for it. Also no tanks does bug me a little, not that they have to show up very often, but there should be some occasionally. Sure that will be remedied at some point.

Agree about Napoleonic Wars being bad history, but it is a really fun game in the times I've played it. I do wish there was a more historical variant for it.
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Stefano Leonardi
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billyboy wrote:
Combat Commander Series
I don't like CDG games and don't like tactical games. This has it all gulp

Good point. While I am not so drastic (I am not very fond of CDG either, but I do like tactical games), I find the combination of CDG and tactical a bit unnatural.
IMHO the most proper place for cards in wargames is in strategic ones, where the card represent special strategic situations that influence the entire theater of operations. On the other hand, in tactical games the "special situations" are best dealt with using special rules and, if applicable, additional counters.
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El Comandante
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A lot of short views on how to play CC, it seems...

For my part it would be Command and Colors : Ancients. Totally overrated, un-historic, un-strategic. May be fun to play, just as I like to play Stratego, but far from qualifying for antything near what is a wargame.
And I think worse of M44.

Any way I must be wrong, when you see the success of these two games.
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Michael Dorosh
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"Most Recognized Least Favorite Game"

Baiting people on the internet. Easy to spot, almost always leads to unprofitable expenditure of time.

I'm not sure what purpose "I hate that" threads serve other than making people that do like the games being mentioned feel stupid for liking them.

Case in point:

Quote:
For my part it would be Command and Colors : Ancients. Totally overrated, un-historic, un-strategic. May be fun to play, just as I like to play Stratego, but far from qualifying for antything near what is a wargame.


I'm pretty sure that is enough for some people.
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James
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Michael Dorosh wrote:
"Most Recognized Least Favorite Game"

Baiting people on the internet. Easy to spot, almost always leads to unprofitable expenditure of time.

I'm not sure what purpose "I hate that" threads serve other than making people that do like the games being mentioned feel stupid for liking them.

Case in point:

Quote:
For my part it would be Command and Colors : Ancients. Totally overrated, un-historic, un-strategic. May be fun to play, just as I like to play Stratego, but far from qualifying for antything near what is a wargame.


I'm pretty sure that is enough for some people.


Everyone seems to be getting on alright up to now.
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Sean McCormick
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polipone wrote:
billyboy wrote:
Combat Commander Series
I don't like CDG games and don't like tactical games. This has it all gulp

Good point. While I am not so drastic (I am not very fond of CDG either, but I do like tactical games), I find the combination of CDG and tactical a bit unnatural.
IMHO the most proper place for cards in wargames is in strategic ones, where the card represent special strategic situations that influence the entire theater of operations. On the other hand, in tactical games the "special situations" are best dealt with using special rules and, if applicable, additional counters.


I actually think cards make a lot of sense in both operational and tactical games as a mechanism for introducing the kind of uncertainties that you see as you zoom down. Up Front remains to my mind the best tactical game ever made. I have problems with how Combat Commander specifically handles the interactions of cards to board and how it models chaos, but I wouldn't tar the concept of cards in a tactical game just because of how it is applied in one system.
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Ubergeek
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Advanced Squad Leader. And I say that boasting an impressive collection of wargames and with respect for the SL system. Unfortunately I could never get into the layers of rules and pace of the game. I don't think ASL will ever grace my table or collection... But who knows... Tastes change over the years.
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ICONOCLAST

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"Most Recognized Least Favorite" wargame - mine is probably B-17: Queen of the Skies. To me it's just a bunch of dice rolling, with little decision-making... Boring. I rate the less recognised Test of Fire: Bull Run 1861 even lower because it gives you the illusion of decision-making when ultimately it's all in the hands of the dice gods. And there are a number of non-wargames I rate lower, mostly mass-market crap.
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Jeremy Fridy
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seanmac wrote:
Funny, as Band of Brothers and Napoleon's Triumph would probably qualify as my top two designs of the last ten years.

The Napoleonic Wars. It's bad history and it's not remotely interesting game play. I'm really sort of perplexed as to what the draw is here.


Also every group I played it with seemed to use different rules. If I wanted that I would play Mao.
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El Comandante
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Michael Dorosh wrote:
Quote:
For my part it would be Command and Colors : Ancients. Totally overrated, un-historic, un-strategic. May be fun to play, just as I like to play Stratego, but far from qualifying for antything near what is a wargame.


I'm pretty sure that is enough for some people.


Absolutely, and it is still my first criteria when I'm playing. And my only regret is to have been tired out by the flaws of the game, which prevented me to feel the fun.
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Tim Korchnoi
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Mine would have to be the Mercury part of Mercury/Market Garden.

I have always been intrigued by this military operation and the old Air Assault On Crete/Invasion of Malta: 1942 doesn't quite cut it. So I picked this up and was disappointed big time!

There is no tension in the game and no chance of the allies putting any kind of slow down on the Germans (let alone winning) As soon as the Germans get control of Malme it's just rush in the mountain units and it is over. I hope the Market-Garden is a much better game.

I even tried a new approach to give the allies a better chance by forcing Germans to drop all their troops in the first three impulses of the game but that did little to change the outcome. It appears that the only way to balance this scenario is to have an allied victory condition based on how many damage points the Germans take in the battle. I know that historically, the Germans won big time, but this is supposed to be a game which means it needs to be interesting for both players. This game has the feel of a technically lost rook and pawn endgame in chess: so long as the side with the advantage doesn't blow it, he can't lose.

I will say that I have not tried the Market Garden part of the game.

The other game that would qualify is Labyrinth: The War on Terror, 2001 – ?. Maybe I just don't get it but it feels boring to me and kind of flat. I never felt any kind of excitement in the four times I played it and eventually gave up.
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J.L. Robert
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Michael Dorosh wrote:
"Most Recognized Least Favorite Game"

Baiting people on the internet. Easy to spot, almost always leads to unprofitable expenditure of time.


You were clearly caught up enough.
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Sean McCormick
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Walt Mulder wrote:
Advanced Squad Leader. And I say that boasting an impressive collection of wargames and with respect for the SL system. Unfortunately I could never get into the layers of rules and pace of the game. I don't think ASL will ever grace my table or collection... But who knows... Tastes change over the years.


Yeah, I was pressing myself to come up with an answer other than ASL.
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Jason Sadler
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I have not been able to get into Red Winter: The Soviet Attack at Tolvajärvi, Finland – 8-12 December 1939. The system is fine, the game is gorgeous, and the situation is boring. I look forward to the next game in the system to see if a different kind of fighting will bring it to life for me.

Napoleon's Triumph eludes me as well. For a long time, I thought I didn't understand the rules. After a great deal of effort to make sure I understood the rules, I discovered that I wasn't interested in the ride.
I still own a copy in case the lotus flower of enlightenment blossoms inside me some day and the essence of the game is revealed to me.




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David Janik-Jones
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Up Front fan, Cats were once worshipped as gods and they haven't forgotten this, Combat Commander series fan, The Raven King (game publisher) ... that's me!, Fields of Fire fan
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Normally when this question comes up, and wargames isn't specified, the answer is simple: Agricola. Ugh. But given wargames are the request, and my severe love-hate relationship for Fields of Fire is now more of a "I may even like this fiddly masterpiece, but only Normandy", that leaves me only one "most recognised, least favourite".

Advanced Squad Leader.

All tactical games are gamey. All require us to suspend our understanding of reality to some (usually great) degree. All wind up being strong in one area or another. So it's not that I don't, uh, "recognise the recognition" and endurance of Advanced Squad Leader. Hell, I was a regular player back in the late 80s. But for me, there are far too many gamey things and rules absurdities that I can't explain away even to make a good story that makes Advanced Squad Leader my least favourite wargame.

So except for the best wargame ever made, Up Front, there's obviously other folks who can rightly argue the same things about other games.
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John New
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The Grinch wrote:
"Most Recognized Least Favorite" wargame - mine is probably B-17: Queen of the Skies. To me it's just a bunch of dice rolling, with little decision-making... Boring.


This is a common complaint against this game. Although, paradoxically, the lack of decision-making is what justifies it, to my mind, as a simulation. B-17 bomber crews maintaining formation and bombing on the leader didn't have a great deal of decision-making to do either. And what happened to them, either from flak or fighters, was also pretty random. I'm not saying you're wrong to dislike it, just making an observation.

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