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Subject: Worries about cheating in the dice draw rss

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Tiziano Contorno
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Hi all, I still do not own the product but I'm wondering: what if the dice faces are made so that a well talented dishonest player could "choose" dice while drawing from the bag?

I ask this because apparently is the first question people ask me when I introduce the game as an alternative to Magic, with a possible "professional" scene emerging as well. At least professional in the sense that the store gives price. And when there are price, some people would do everything cheap and easy to win...

Dice-shakers?
 
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Matt Mansell
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Vanadio wrote:
Hi all, I still do not own the product but I'm wondering: what if the dice faces are made so that a well talented dishonest player could "choose" dice while drawing from the bag?

I ask this because apparently is the first question people ask me when I introduce the game as an alternative to Magic, with a possible "professional" scene emerging as well. At least professional in the sense that the store gives price. And when there are price, some people would do everything cheap and easy to win...

Dice-shakers?


I look at it this way, it only takes a certain amount of time to draw four dice. If someone is going to cheat by "feeling" for the dice they want, it's going to take them longer than average and it will be obvious.

That being said, I don't think we're going to see a lot (any?) cheating going on in this game. There are, of course, always going to be exceptions.
 
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Jose Huerta
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you can house rule it so that your opponent draws the 4 out of your bag...Akin to cutting your opponents deck, then you have the reverse issue of the "cheater" pulling bad dice, but it's likely they don't practice that...


Or you could have them pour out 4 die in their hand from the bag and if they get 5 or more dice they must return them to the bag with a shake and re draw!!!

I hear you about the cheating, but these would be 2 ideas I would consider.

I'd be more worried about a person sewing a secret compartment in their dice bag and hiding a Mjolnir or a Wolverine in it and pulling it at the right time! Checking your opponents dice bag would be more like cutting the deck!

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Erik Schmidt
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Secret compartment would be pretty ballsy because eventually someone is going to call you on it. I think the problem of feeling dice can be solved by drawing dice with a gloved hand. I think dice gloves could be pretty rad and a necessity for tournament play.
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Jason Erb
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i would be concerned more with someone drawing out 3 dice, not being satisfied with them, and then drawing out 2 dice. whoops, too many, need to put them all back and start over.

watch out for that practice and if someone abuses that notify the TO.
 
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Jonathan Sugiyama
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We have been drawing dice one at a time to counter this fear.
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Tiziano Contorno
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Dice Gloves: not a bad idea...

Dice-shaker are cumbersome, and the idea of having a "power glove" with some cool arts could be attractive.
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Robert Griffin
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I would think nitril/vinyl disposable gloves would settle this cheaply. At worst maybe some cheap cotton gloves like the kind used for handling very old photos/documents. Either option could be had for cents/pair. But I think earlier posters are correct that searching out that kind of detail in a dice bag would take a noticeable amount of time.
 
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Ranger Rob
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I was thinking of some sort of clear funnel /plastic tube that only would hold 4 dice.
Shake and pour your dicebag into the funnel.
Use the first 4 dice that slide into the tube, return rest to the bag.
 
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William Cody
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make sure they use the clear dice sleeves and they wont be able to feel through them
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Derek Johnson
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Starsplice wrote:
We have been drawing dice one at a time to counter this fear.


Great idea!
 
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Andrew Tosch
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I wouldn't do tournaments if I had to wear gloves... yik gulp

If someone pulled 3, then 2, I would make them put the 2 back and draw 1. And as other pointed out, you can tell when someone is feeling for something.

I have a game (Myth) with a bag full of metal treasure coins (really tiny, much samller than a dime). I had one guy pull one the best ones and then I watched him. It was painfully obvious he was grabing one and feeling it, then grabing another. So I made him redraw correctly and it was much faster.

If people try to cheat at a tournament and I'm playing them or even watching them, I'm going to call them out on it. I can't stand cheaters. I used to run an airsoft group and when we caught a cheater he had to face a firing squad (5 shots, in the back, at 10 paces). If he refused or did it a second time, he was banished permently. We only had 1 issue. Hopefully stores will have a similar policy (I would love to chuck a die at a cheater...), but if the store won't take care of it, I will stop buying my MDM or playing there.
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Matt Mansell
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oneone78 wrote:
i would be concerned more with someone drawing out 3 dice, not being satisfied with them, and then drawing out 2 dice. whoops, too many, need to put them all back and start over.

watch out for that practice and if someone abuses that notify the TO.


I would rule they only replace the two they drew and redraw one; they are still stuck with the three the already drew
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Tiziano Contorno
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I see better "if you don't draw perfectly 4, put all back in and redraw".
 
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Duane Stewart
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If you could find an opaque one of these that could hold dice, you'd be ready to go:

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skippen
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Vanadio wrote:
Hi all, I still do not own the product but I'm wondering: what if the dice faces are made so that a well talented dishonest player could "choose" dice while drawing from the bag?

I ask this because apparently is the first question people ask me when I introduce the game as an alternative to Magic, with a possible "professional" scene emerging as well. At least professional in the sense that the store gives price. And when there are price, some people would do everything cheap and easy to win...

Dice-shakers?


Play with better quality people.
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Robert Rodger
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cscottk wrote:


Play with better quality people.


Talking about this with a friend he said he was playing Quarriers with a fellow who was convinced he could learn to pull the dice he wanted from the bag by feel. So my friend said, "go ahead."

In this case, the opponent couldn't. The friend said the worse part was it just slowed everything down. I wouldn't over worry about it, but if someone seems to be, just say "hurry up," and blame time.
 
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Matt Shinners
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cscottk wrote:
Vanadio wrote:
Hi all, I still do not own the product but I'm wondering: what if the dice faces are made so that a well talented dishonest player could "choose" dice while drawing from the bag?

I ask this because apparently is the first question people ask me when I introduce the game as an alternative to Magic, with a possible "professional" scene emerging as well. At least professional in the sense that the store gives price. And when there are price, some people would do everything cheap and easy to win...

Dice-shakers?


Play with better quality people.


You don't pick your opponents at tournaments.
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Russ Rivet
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Weirdly, I was thinking of the same thing today, I just ordered the base set,$31.00shake and the idea of someone feeling up the dice crossed my mind.


I have a Q, Would it be more frugal to buy the c/u sets from the bay and then fill out the rares/super rares or should I just get a gravity feed pack?
 
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William Cody
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boltspedman wrote:
Weirdly, I was thinking of the same thing today, I just ordered the base set,$31.00shake and the idea of someone feeling up the dice crossed my mind.


I have a Q, Would it be more frugal to buy the c/u sets from the bay and then fill out the rares/super rares or should I just get a gravity feed pack?


you could buy the c/u but I would absolutely wait to buy the overpriced rares and super rares for a while. The prices are outrageous, so you are probably better off buying 2 gravity feeds and trading for the r/sr, than buying the r/sr right now. I think, in a month or 2 the prices should fall just like M:tG
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Matt Malone
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I would be less worried about people conspicuously feeling for the dice than simply palming dice during the clear and draw stage.

That being said, every game can be cheated in some way or other and it's up to others to find those they trust playing with.
 
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skippen
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MattShinners wrote:
cscottk wrote:
Vanadio wrote:
Hi all, I still do not own the product but I'm wondering: what if the dice faces are made so that a well talented dishonest player could "choose" dice while drawing from the bag?

I ask this because apparently is the first question people ask me when I introduce the game as an alternative to Magic, with a possible "professional" scene emerging as well. At least professional in the sense that the store gives price. And when there are price, some people would do everything cheap and easy to win...

Dice-shakers?


Play with better quality people.


You don't pick your opponents at tournaments.


If they are cheating, report them. It will take a while to "feel up" a die, or just don't go to tournaments--I expect this game will fall apart due to the rarity issue at tournaments anyways (hope not), but based on the distribution of my one booster box, I have fears. There is something to be said about more pricey boosters with guaranteed rares per pack.
 
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David Lockwood
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Ah cheating....

It says so much about a persons personality if you cheat. It really does.

I mean yeah you won, but you know you didn't actually won. You know you are a cheating rat bastard.

Cheaters fail so hard at life that they feel it necessary to cheat? Man... It is just a game at the end of the day...
 
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Panda Bear
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Unfortunately after years of watching MTG tournaments, cheating is inevitable. In a casual sense if someone is cheating, for shame...find better folks. In a tournament sense they need to seriously consider enforcing dice towers and some type of mechanism for folks good at slight of hand / palming dice / reading dice like braille.

While it is of course silly to think of requiring such things in private playing, the implications when rewards (money, exclusive swag, etc) are involved...folks quickly find any and all ways to work the system to their advantage.

Off the top of my head, setting a fast timer to grab dice and a 1 at a time rule seems to be viable to counter it - albeit a very basic way of doing so.
 
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Tiziano Contorno
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It's not a matter of finding honest players, it's about wondering how much this system is safe against cheaters and what can be done, if needed, to improve "cheat-protection". As already stated, when prices and money come in cheaters arise. Obviously we are not talking about our beloved game fellows.

Let's imagine a glorious future for this game, with a Pro Tour a la MTG: do you see the finalists drawing dice from a bag?
 
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