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Subject: Baltar winking at OPG-discovered cylon - legit? rss

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Ecosmith Ecosmith
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If I as human Baltar use my OPG amd then declare him human, to trick him into thinking I'm the other cylon, and then I wink at him to consolidate this, is that legit?

Eco
 
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Pasi Ojala
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Sure, although I prefer if everyone at the table are able to see the wink.
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Mindy G
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I think it depends on your group. Some will be okay with it, some will not. I'm not really okay with things like that myself. Everything should be open to the whole table, and if someone doesn't see the wink, they are missing info they should have access to. It's no different to me than if two people happened to step away from the table at the same time, like to get a beer in the kitchen or something, and one whispered something to the other.
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Chris Ley
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Ecosmith wrote:
If I as human Baltar use my OPG amd then declare him human, to trick him into thinking I'm the other cylon, and then I wink at him to consolidate this, is that legit?

Eco


My question is why would you want to do that? I don't see that as beneficial to the humans in any way, unless his turn was next and you didn't want him to reveal. But then why would you need the wink? Simply by not revealing him would indicate to him that he was safe.

Also, if other players see the wink, they will assume you're a cylon and you will be brigged. Another risk is that you say he is human and he reveals and again you will be brigged. Being a brigged human sucks, personally I wouldn't take the risk.
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Carl Bussema
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I would disallow any form of secret / private communication, so no on the wink. Unless, as noted, the whole table sees it, in which case, what's the point?

Play your poker face. Simply state calmly and certainly that he is not a Cylon, and he will probably think you are the other Cylon (although if your victim has looked at someone else's loyalty cards earlier, you might want to rethink this stunt).
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Ecosmith wrote:
If I as human Baltar use my OPG amd then declare him human, to trick him into thinking I'm the other cylon, and then I wink at him to consolidate this, is that legit?

Eco


I wouldnt allow things like that.

There should be no sign-language, or codes, or anything like that. all the discussion should be clear and unhidden and available to all players on the table.

That's the reason all communication is in the thread on PBF games, and direct e-mails are only between players and the mod, never between players and other players.

If you dont hold firm to strict rulings on this, you open things up to
'i'll kick you under the table if i'm a cylon and i've worked out that you are the other cylon'
and
'i'll cough twice if i'm playing in a 5 or 6 skillcard, so you know not to play red tape'


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Michael Aldridge
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Winking is unnecessary. If I'm a Cylon, and you see I'm a Cylon, and you don't reveal that I'm a Cylon, you've already shown me that you're likely my Cylon buddy.

So winking isn't going to make me believe you any more... in fact, if I thought you really were a Cylon, I'd probably be a little upset with you for winking in the first place, as all it will do is to cause the humans to suspect both of us. Why would two humans wink at one another as if they shared a secret?
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These sorts of non-verbal communications make up a lot of what makes The Resistance/Avalon and Werewolf what they are. Of course, those games have virtually no elements outside the secret roles. Unlike BSG where if you know who the cylons are, they're known, but there are still board mechanics and card driven activities used to cause a human loss. Admittedly, I hate playing an entire game watching all others like a hawk to pick up this crucial information that may or may not be there. Especially from key roles like The Seer, Mason, or Merlin.


However, if you insist that this is out in the open, then you need to be consistent. If 2 people are talking at one end of a 7p game, then someone needs to repeat it to the other end of the table to be fair, etc.
 
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Daniel Loke
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I personally prefer that there is no secret communication whatsoever.

However, I will tell you a tale of how a friend tried to do the "wink-wink-nudge-nudge" thing and had it backfire spectacularly.

So my friend Mark made a very Cylon move -- I believe he scouted something poorly and then, as the Admiral, jumped to a really bad Destination. So since everyone knew that Mark was a Cylon, Steve apparently kicked him below the table and they made an "understanding". Hours later, Steve gave Mark the ability to do massive damage to the humans (I can't remember the details), but instead, Mark executed Steve. So that was awesome.

In a different game, an Exodus one, it was pretty clear that it was 4 v 1 and the second Cylon was the last one in the loyalty deck. However, humans were still getting their asses kicked, so with morale at 1, human Steve executed himself to try to win with the Cylons. HAHAHAHA it turns out that Mark was actually super-slow playing! We decided that Steve would be the only loser of that game. So that was awesome.
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schmloof wrote:
We decided that Steve would be the only loser of that game. So that was awesome.

Erm, you cant really just decide that. If humans lose, then everyone on the human team loses.
You can argue about who played better and whos fault it is, but the fact would still be that all cylon players win, and all human players lose.

 
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Janne
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Starfox4 wrote:
schmloof wrote:
We decided that Steve would be the only loser of that game. So that was awesome.

Erm, you cant really just decide that. If humans lose, then everyone on the human team loses.
You can argue about who played better and whos fault it is, but the fact would still be that all cylon players win, and all human players lose.


Sure you can houserule it for one particular game, or name him just 'The biggest loser', the one who causes the team to lose.
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jhsa wrote:
Starfox4 wrote:
schmloof wrote:
We decided that Steve would be the only loser of that game. So that was awesome.

Erm, you cant really just decide that. If humans lose, then everyone on the human team loses.
You can argue about who played better and whos fault it is, but the fact would still be that all cylon players win, and all human players lose.


Sure you can houserule it for one particular game, or name him just 'The biggest loser', the one who causes the team to lose.

Houserules would have to be agreed on beforehand. You cant really alter the victory conditions on a whim right at the end of the game.

But yeah, it's fair enough to blame steve as 'the biggest loser' or say the humans failure was mainly his fault.



 
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M. B. Downey
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If you are trying to violate the spirit of a thematic game to win, you are the loser.
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Robert Stewart
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If everyone (including Steve) agreed to change the rules, then that's also fine - if anyone (except possibly Steve) objected, then there'd be a problem, but one of the fundamental differences between board games and video games is that the rules of a board game are whatever the players agree they are.
 
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Ecosmith Ecosmith
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I just realised that in this example, winking does absolutely no good anyway since the drclRTion of innocence is enough to fool the Cylon. Bit risky though if he reveals, as then the humans will erroneously assume I'm the second one.
 
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Dan
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Quote:

So my friend Mark made a very Cylon move -- I believe he scouted something poorly and then, as the Admiral, jumped to a really bad Destination. So since everyone knew that Mark was a Cylon, Steve apparently kicked him below the table and they made an "understanding". Hours later, Steve gave Mark the ability to do massive damage to the humans (I can't remember the details), but instead, Mark executed Steve. So that was awesome.

In a different game, an Exodus one, it was pretty clear that it was 4 v 1 and the second Cylon was the last one in the loyalty deck. However, humans were still getting their asses kicked, so with morale at 1, human Steve executed himself to try to win with the Cylons. HAHAHAHA it turns out that Mark was actually super-slow playing! We decided that Steve would be the only loser of that game. So that was awesome.


These are great!
 
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Joel Carson
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downeymb wrote:
If you are trying to violate the spirit of a thematic game to win, you are the loser.


No one knows EXCATLY why Dee shot herself, right?

With no rules in my hands, I assume moral at 1 before execution would mean the game ends before that person gets a new character and draws a mutiny. However, if morale was at 2 I'd have to applaud someone taking the coin flip chance at joining the winning tram. That stuff happens in war all the time. And the humans still have a chance to win. So stick it to the traitor.
 
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Robert Stewart
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JCChrono wrote:
downeymb wrote:
If you are trying to violate the spirit of a thematic game to win, you are the loser.


No one knows EXCATLY why Dee shot herself, right?

With no rules in my hands, I assume moral at 1 before execution would mean the game ends before that person gets a new character and draws a mutiny. However, if morale was at 2 I'd have to applaud someone taking the coin flip chance at joining the winning tram. That stuff happens in war all the time. And the humans still have a chance to win. So stick it to the traitor.


Game doesn't end until the turn does, so they get their new character and loyalty either way. Depending on whether they're current player or not, the turn might end abruptly at that point, but you always complete the current action whatever else happens.
 
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rmsgrey wrote:
JCChrono wrote:
downeymb wrote:
If you are trying to violate the spirit of a thematic game to win, you are the loser.


No one knows EXCATLY why Dee shot herself, right?

With no rules in my hands, I assume moral at 1 before execution would mean the game ends before that person gets a new character and draws a mutiny. However, if morale was at 2 I'd have to applaud someone taking the coin flip chance at joining the winning tram. That stuff happens in war all the time. And the humans still have a chance to win. So stick it to the traitor.


Game doesn't end until the turn does, so they get their new character and loyalty either way. Depending on whether they're current player or not, the turn might end abruptly at that point, but you always complete the current action whatever else happens.


Page 12 of the Pegasus rules says the morale loss from execution occurs before a new character is selected. If a resource is at zero I don't think you get to finish the turn completely. For example, if on my turn I XO you and you execute yourself, reducing morale to zero, I'm not going to get to read my crisis card. My turn is cut off because we lost. Right?
 
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You resolve the execution fully, even when Morale drops to 1, and Dee would get executed, you resolve the first one fully, then Dee, including selecting a new character, then check the resources at the end of the turn.

With the XO case, you still get your crisis, the resources are checked at the end of turn (page 18 of the rulebook), and your crisis has the possibility to increase the resource that is at zero.

Galactica Rules p.18 wrote:
Run Out a Resource: If at least one resource is depleted to 0 or less at the end of a player's turn, the game immediately ends and the Cylon players win. Note that it is possible for the human players to reach 0 of a resource type and then increase it during the same turn without losing the game.

Emphasis from the rulebook.
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Wow. I would have said that anything goes as long as everyone stays at the same table. Winking (or any other form of private communication) sure looks suspicious if caught though... and would certainly put both players at risk of being brigged and labelled traitors if noticed by any other players. Seems like it could be counter-productive if you are trying to be a helpful human.
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a1bert wrote:
You resolve the execution fully, even when Morale drops to 1, and Dee would get executed, you resolve the first one fully, then Dee, including selecting a new character, then check the resources at the end of the turn.

With the XO case, you still get your crisis, the resources are checked at the end of turn (page 18 of the rulebook), and your crisis has the possibility to increase the resource that is at zero.

Galactica Rules p.18 wrote:
Run Out a Resource: If at least one resource is depleted to 0 or less at the end of a player's turn, the game immediately ends and the Cylon players win. Note that it is possible for the human players to reach 0 of a resource type and then increase it during the same turn without losing the game.

Emphasis from the rulebook.


Ahh, rulebook. You win again.
 
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JCChrono wrote:
a1bert wrote:
You resolve the execution fully, even when Morale drops to 1, and Dee would get executed, you resolve the first one fully, then Dee, including selecting a new character, then check the resources at the end of the turn.

With the XO case, you still get your crisis, the resources are checked at the end of turn (page 18 of the rulebook), and your crisis has the possibility to increase the resource that is at zero.

Galactica Rules p.18 wrote:
Run Out a Resource: If at least one resource is depleted to 0 or less at the end of a player's turn, the game immediately ends and the Cylon players win. Note that it is possible for the human players to reach 0 of a resource type and then increase it during the same turn without losing the game.

Emphasis from the rulebook.


Ahh, rulebook. You win again.
Furthermore, IIRC, the resource dials can't go below 0, so if something goes to -1 and you get +1, you're not at 1, NOT 0, and thus are still in the game.

I do tell everyone that at the end of the game turn part, but honestly, many people, especially newbies end up forgetting it.


EDIT: I meant turn, not game
 
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ackmondual wrote:
JCChrono wrote:
a1bert wrote:
You resolve the execution fully, even when Morale drops to 1, and Dee would get executed, you resolve the first one fully, then Dee, including selecting a new character, then check the resources at the end of the turn.

With the XO case, you still get your crisis, the resources are checked at the end of turn (page 18 of the rulebook), and your crisis has the possibility to increase the resource that is at zero.

Galactica Rules p.18 wrote:
Run Out a Resource: If at least one resource is depleted to 0 or less at the end of a player's turn, the game immediately ends and the Cylon players win. Note that it is possible for the human players to reach 0 of a resource type and then increase it during the same turn without losing the game.

Emphasis from the rulebook.


Ahh, rulebook. You win again.
Furthermore, IIRC, the resource dials can't go below 0, so if something goes to -1 and you get +1, you're not at 1, NOT 0, and thus are still in the game.

I do tell everyone that at the end of the game part, but honestly, many people, especially newbies end up forgetting it.


Noted. I assume this applies to die rolls too, yes. Say, Strategic Planning is used, die roll equals 7 or 8. Either way the die result is "8", so someone can use calculations to make that die roll a 7 afterwards.
 
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JCChrono wrote:
ackmondual wrote:
JCChrono wrote:
a1bert wrote:
You resolve the execution fully, even when Morale drops to 1, and Dee would get executed, you resolve the first one fully, then Dee, including selecting a new character, then check the resources at the end of the turn.

With the XO case, you still get your crisis, the resources are checked at the end of turn (page 18 of the rulebook), and your crisis has the possibility to increase the resource that is at zero.

Galactica Rules p.18 wrote:
Run Out a Resource: If at least one resource is depleted to 0 or less at the end of a player's turn, the game immediately ends and the Cylon players win. Note that it is possible for the human players to reach 0 of a resource type and then increase it during the same turn without losing the game.

Emphasis from the rulebook.


Ahh, rulebook. You win again.
Furthermore, IIRC, the resource dials can't go below 0, so if something goes to -1 and you get +1, you're not at 1, NOT 0, and thus are still in the game.

I do tell everyone that at the end of the game part, but honestly, many people, especially newbies end up forgetting it.


Noted. I assume this applies to die rolls too, yes. Say, Strategic Planning is used, die roll equals 7 or 8. Either way the die result is "8", so someone can use calculations to make that die roll a 7 afterwards.


If playing with Pegasus, yeah, I tell everyone you still need to roll a SP 3+. Ditto with skill checks, as sometimes there can be a cylon who wants to tank something after all, or those expansion cards that do special effects.
 
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