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Subject: [Deck] Chaos Theory: Modern Dynamics rss

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Bryan Goodwin
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Chaos Theory hasn't been getting much attention lately, but I've been intrigued by her Magnum Opus potential. While recognizing that this is not new ground, I've been exploring it and am hoping to get some input from experienced Shaper players. Some commentary and specific questions follow the decklist:

Chaos Theory (40 cards)

Chaos Theory: Wunderkind

Event (14)
1 Account Siphon ••••
2 Dirty Laundry
2 Indexing
2 Legwork ••••
1 Levy AR Lab Access
3 Quality Time
3 Test Run

Hardware (11)
3 Clone Chip
3 Dinosaurus
2 Plascrete Carapace
3 R&D Interface

Resource (2)
2 Same Old Thing

Icebreaker (6)
1 Corroder ••
1 Deus X
2 Femme Fatale ••
1 Gordian Blade
1 Sharpshooter

Program (7)
1 Keyhole •••
3 Magnum Opus
3 Self-modifying Code

Built with http://netrunner.meteor.com/

Game Plan

Get the Opus out, do it fast. Mulligan for it, SMC if necessary (fire at end of opponent's turn). Build a rig on the run, the deck supports moderate aggression fairly well. Most scoring will come from R&D, but Legwork is great for sniping a few from HQ.

Strengths

Economy, R&D Pressure, Fast Rig

Weaknesses

No Archives Pressure, Few Tricks

Areas of Uncertainty

Additional Econ?
Even with Opus, a little something extra can provide an edge. These should not directly compete with Opus, so clickless is good. The deck as listed uses Dirty Laundry; Daily Casts might be a better choice? I'm currently leaning toward Modded to help get rig out faster.

Breaker Weakness?
Test Run/Femme is great, but eventually that Femme needs to be installed the hard way, which does slow things down. In most cases, Femme will be going on the Dinosaurus as it needs the boost the most. At one point, I was running 1x Femme and 1x Mimic to provide flexibility of choice, but am currently trying 2 Femme for the additional Test Run bypass.

Replacing Gordian with Torch may improve the deck's late game... but so many people are only playing weak code gates to bait a Yog install, it's hard to justify.

That Keyhole?
It's influence-expensive, and may not get installed a lot of games due to competition for MU, but there aren't many other tools in the deck to deal with Jinteki or an early undefended R&D. What might provide more value in this slot?

That Siphon?
It's a small deck & has the influence to spare; can threaten recursion with Same Old Thing to pressure HQ. I guess one more could be crammed in, but would it add enough value to justify the cuts?


Thanks in advance for any advice!

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Zeb
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I've played this style of deck quite a bit and would definitely recommend x3 Modded. An awesome first turn involves Modded -> MO. I would also go with diesel over (or in addition to) Quality Time as well as another corroder.
 
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John Fanjoy
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3 Test Run
2 Femme Fatale
0 Scavenge

Something is wrong here...

2 Indexing
3 R&D Interface
1 Keyhole

Also here
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Daniel Wray
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CitizenFry wrote:
3 Test Run
2 Femme Fatale
0 Scavenge

Something is wrong here...

2 Indexing
3 R&D Interface
1 Keyhole

Also here


If you are going to offer critique you could at least explain yourself. Just because these are self evident to you does not automatically mean it is obvious to anyone.

Test Run/Scavenge is a great combo, drops the Femme into play cheap, and can be used to tutor other tools if you choose to include them (Torch, for example). Scavenge can be used on it's own to retarget Femme if needed. Great pair of cards to run together.They work well on their own and synergize even better - what you want most from a combo.

I'm not sure about the second point. It seems like the plan is a bit mixed, RDI does nothing for you with Keyhole, but actually synergizes well with Indexing. Seems like the plan would be to use Indexing/RDI or change direction and go Keyhole. An option might be to drop Keyhole and RDI and go with a single Medium and Nerve Agent. This would give you a mixed attack that you can switch around for as needed, and they work well with your events. Plus, you can tutor for them.

Remember that Medium accesses are optional, so you can mitigate R&D risk somewhat with Jinteki. If you are really concerned with the proliferation of Jinteki, run a single copy of Deus X (fills a similar role as Sharpshooter, so could replace if space is tight).

EDIT: Nevermind - I see you are already running Deus X. Just get it out before hitting Jinteki hard and make sure your recursion (Clone Chip) is in place. It will keep you alive, trash it only for damage that would kill you.
 
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Daniel Wray
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Maker's Eye is also another option for R&D attack. Compliments Legwork nicely, giving you a surprise assault when needed.

Sneakdoor Beta is a great splash in Shaper. The surprise it offers can just win games. It will be up to you to decide what mix of tools will work best with your playstyle and plan of attack.
 
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John Fanjoy
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I could explain further if someone asks. The intent was to help the OP think, not to do his thinking for him. Since YOU asked about the second point, I'll elaborate: Keyhole does not synergize with either of the other two cards. I disagree that RDI has much synergy with Indexing: if you see two or more agendas (rare), you can either get both immediately anyway, or if not you can hide one a few cards down and get it later, usually at not much penalty. Also, six cards is a lot to devote to R&D attack, especially since they're so expensive.
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Brodie
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Test Run -> Opus, use Opus x3 is a painful turn. Well, perhaps more accurately, Test Run -> Opus, Opus x3 followed by Draw Opus, Play Opus, be sad x2. I hate to do it unless I absolutely must - so many clicks sunk into setup! Test Run -> Opus, Scavenge is a much better turn. Scavenge also works great with Femme, as mentioned above, and even Deus X in a tight spot. I have to recommend it.

I also think Keyhole is a mistake here. You have a lot of R&D attack which doesn't synergize well with it, and you have the memory-intensive Opus. I don't know how you use Keyhole effectively in this setup; even with Dinosaurus in play, you only have room for 2 breakers + Opus + Keyhole. I'd drop it and use the influence elsewhere. With 3 Clone Chip, Faerie is a good candidate.
 
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Henry Silver
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Not sure about Dinosaurus in this deck. It hasn't worked out that well when I've run it as the tempo hit from installing it has been prohibitive and it's a dead card after installing the first one. Best case scenario it saves you 2-4 credits per run but that's only if you have a fem installed there and are breaking a sentry.

I think you're right be unsure about keyhole, you already have a safe way of accessing R/D with indexing so I'd drop the keyhole for another indexing. Indexing plays better with your Same Old Thing as well.

A parasite might be a useful addition to your toolkit as well. You have plenty of ways to recur it and it can be useful to instantly kill a 0 strength ice or take care of some expensive ice that you don't want to break normally.

 
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Zeb
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Korror wrote:
Not sure about Dinosaurus in this deck. It hasn't worked out that well when I've run it as the tempo hit from installing it has been prohibitive and it's a dead card after installing the first one. Best case scenario it saves you 2-4 credits per run but that's only if you have a fem installed there and are breaking a sentry.

I think you're right be unsure about keyhole, you already have a safe way of accessing R/D with indexing so I'd drop the keyhole for another indexing. Indexing plays better with your Same Old Thing as well.

A parasite might be a useful addition to your toolkit as well. You have plenty of ways to recur it and it can be useful to instantly kill a 0 strength ice or take care of some expensive ice that you don't want to break normally.



I opted to keep the dinosaurus in my deck because it was working so well. Femmeasaurus is great.
 
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Bob Bobberson
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Maybe run Sneakdoor instead of Keyhole and HQ Interfaces instead of Legwork?
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Bryan Goodwin
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Disclaimer: My responses on this thread are to provide additional explanation of the original choices, and to spur discussion. If I appear to push back on a suggestion, it's not to defend the original card choice but instead to solicit a more in-depth dialog. I prefer to talk constructively about how the deck plays rather than a simple "Add this, remove that and you're fixed up".

CitizenFry wrote:
Keyhole does not synergize with either of the other two cards.


I probably should have gone into more detail in the original post. Keyhole wasn't intended to be part of the permanent rig, it's a specialist program to take advantage of certain favorable board conditions. If a state never appears where it makes sense to use it, you simply wouldn't use it. Are there enough possible situations to justify this instead of a multi-access or Indexing run? Maybe not. But against Jinteki, Midseasons, or Punitive decks, it could bring a definite advantage when you don't want to access cards right away.

CitizenFry wrote:
3 Test Run
2 Femme Fatale
0 Scavenge

Something is wrong here...


I've been back-and-forth on Scavenges. The Femme retarget is nice, making a Test Run Femme stick is good savings. I'm somewhat concerned that those uses may be too narrow though. Scavenge is a dead card until you're ready to do one of those things. There really aren't any other good (dare I say synergistic) Scavenge targets. In your experience, is it worth the include for the two tricks above?

CitizenFry wrote:
I disagree that RDI has much synergy with Indexing: if you see two or more agendas (rare), you can either get both immediately anyway, or if not you can hide one a few cards down and get it later, usually at not much penalty.


I'm not sure they need to synergize? As above, which one gets used is situational. Indexing is good early, when you can afford multiple R&D runs in a turn. RDI is good later, when you need to maximize accesses from a single run. My preferred play style is to not go all-in on one tactic - I like to have a Plan 'B'.

CitizenFry wrote:
six cards is a lot to devote to R&D attack, especially since they're so expensive.


I guess here I do need more explanation. If you read the above sentence and replace "R&D attack" with "your main win condition", that may help illustrate my confusion. As far as expense ... Indexing costs 0 and the value return on RDI's 4 credits is incredible.
 
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Bryan Goodwin
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Zebadiah wrote:
Korror wrote:
Not sure about Dinosaurus in this deck.


I opted to keep the dinosaurus in my deck because it was working so well. Femmeasaurus is great.


As the only sentry breaker, Femme's pump cost can be backbreaking even with an Opus economy: 12 credits to break Archer, 7 for Ichi 1.0, etc. Dinosaurus helps cover that gap, and even gives back 1 MU for Deus X or Sharpshooter. What would you replace it with to mitigate what it provides?

Korror wrote:
A parasite might be a useful addition to your toolkit as well. You have plenty of ways to recur it and it can be useful to instantly kill a 0 strength ice or take care of some expensive ice that you don't want to break normally.


I've toyed with the idea of a Parasite. Maybe I've been spoiled by Datasucker, but I worry that, unsupported, Parasite would be too slow (no insta-kill with Clone Chip). If the low-strength, high-subroutine ice becomes popular, this would be an easy add. That MU is a mild concern as well.
 
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Bryan Goodwin
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Agent Archer wrote:
Test Run -> Opus, use Opus x3 is a painful turn.


Agreed: Test Run is not for Opus, never ever. There are plenty of other ways to get it out early.

Agent Archer wrote:
With 3 Clone Chip, Faerie is a good candidate.


I do like this suggestion quite a bit - thanks! Faerie helps shore up the expense of using Femme on the most expensive ice, and enables early aggression.
 
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Henry Silver
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I'd probably go consoleless if you drop the dinosaurses and add in some scavenges to replace them. The high strength sentries (Grim, Archer) that you'd want a 4 strength fem for are also very vulnerable to the bypass ability of fem since they have such high rez costs which means the corp can't trash them and rez another easily. A sentry that you can bypass is even cheaper than breaking it with a boosted fem too. Ichi 1.0 is the exception but it's not as common as the other two in my meta.

Scavenge helps you with those high strength sentries since you can retarget your fem if needed as well as helping you get it out earily.
 
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Lysander
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Another benefit of Scavenge is to avoid the timing issues associated with Dinosaurus. If you were to drop one Dinosaurus and add a Scavenge, you'd be in the black, as Scavenge's use doubles as a means of cheating Femme into play or changing its target.

Aside from that, I agree you need a much better use of Clone Chip, and Parasite or Faerie sound like optimal use cases. I'm trying my best to move away from Parasite/Datasucker as well for several reasons, but those low strength, high subroutine ice bother the hell out of me.

Also as much as I love Modded, it's too dang anti-synergistic with SMC and Test Run (when combined with Scavenge). Alternately, you may like Nords's CT, though you seem like you aren't the type to netdeck. Still, perhaps you may find something in it you like.
 
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Bryan Goodwin
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Korror wrote:
I'd probably go consoleless if you drop the dinosaurses and add in some scavenges to replace them. The high strength sentries (Grim, Archer) that you'd want a 4 strength fem for are also very vulnerable to the bypass ability of fem since they have such high rez costs which means the corp can't trash them and rez another easily. A sentry that you can bypass is even cheaper than breaking it with a boosted fem too. Ichi 1.0 is the exception but it's not as common as the other two in my meta.

Scavenge helps you with those high strength sentries since you can retarget your fem if needed as well as helping you get it out earily.


This one's interesting. I'd like to lose the Dinosaurus; in addition to the factors you've mentioned, it forces you into a particular sequence of play (Dino THEN breaker) which runs counter to the flexibility this deck relies on.

Here's a modified deck list based on discussion so far.

My brief thoughts on a few points I didn't address directly in replies:

* A second Corroder certainly wouldn't hurt, but I'm not sure what I would cut for it. There are a lot of search & recur options here, so program destruction isn't too harsh. I'm interested in supporting/opposing arguments, if anyone has them.

* Legwork was selected over HQI intentionally - I don't want to spend a lot of time in HQ, just poke at it with enough threat that the corp feels pressured to defend it.

* Sneakdoor - suffers from the same issues as Keyhole. Expensive in MU, gives maybe 1-2 turns of use. Legwork offers similar utility.


Chaos Theory (40 cards)

Chaos Theory: Wunderkind

Event (20)
1 Account Siphon ••••
3 Diesel
1 Escher
3 Indexing
2 Legwork ••••
1 Levy AR Lab Access
3 Modded
3 Scavenge
3 Test Run

Hardware (7)
3 Clone Chip
2 Plascrete Carapace
2 R&D Interface

Icebreaker (7)
1 Corroder ••
1 Deus X
1 Faerie •••
2 Femme Fatale ••
1 Gordian Blade
1 Sharpshooter

Program (6)
3 Magnum Opus
3 Self-modifying Code

Built with http://netrunner.meteor.com/
 
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Lysander
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In how many games do you find yourself using LARLA? I'd think Red Coats might give this deck a bit of trouble. I like your updated list, but I'd suggest dropping the LARLA for a lone Dinosaurus and Scavenging whatever you need on it (Corroder vs HB and Femme vs Weyland).
 
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Bryan Goodwin
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Lysander1 wrote:
Also as much as I love Modded, it's too dang anti-synergistic with SMC and Test Run (when combined with Scavenge). Alternately, you may like Nords's CT, though you seem like you aren't the type to netdeck. Still, perhaps you may find something in it you like.


I'll probably test the Modded some. It's not a slam dunk, but I could see them working for Plascrete, RDI, drawn programs (post-Test Run). The Scavenges weaken them a bit further, too.

I'll see if I can track down Nords's deck to see if there are ideas worth adapting. I'm not too proud to swipe clever stuff here and there, but generally avoid full-on netdecking because other people's decks don't quiiite fit right (plus the disadvantage if your opponent can correctly identify your deck).
 
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Bryan Goodwin
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Lysander1 wrote:
In how many games do you find yourself using LARLA? I'd think Red Coats might give this deck a bit of trouble. I like your updated list, but I'd suggest dropping the LARLA for a lone Dinosaurus and Scavenging whatever you need on it (Corroder vs HB and Femme vs Weyland).


Never played it yet (blush) - it's a security blanket more than anything, which does make it an excellent candidate for removal. I like the singleton Dino, was considering that myself!

Any HB can be a rough matchup, especially if they hit some ABTs. Folks love the fast advance here in Portland though, haven't actually seen a lot of taxing in the wild.
 
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Henry Silver
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New version looks pretty solid to me. There are probably still refinements that you could make but it's hard to tell what could be replaced without playtesting. My only worry that it is too slow to deal with the FA matchup but you'd need to play a bunch of games to see how that goes. You do have indexing to snag their agendas so you might be able to stop them before they can get started.

I agree with only have a single corroder. With test run and clone chip, program destruction is only a minor annoyance and there's no reason to spend the influence on another copy.
 
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Bryan Goodwin
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There's a degree of resilience to Fast Advance built-in:

* It's easy to recover from trashing SanSan
* If they try to rush an Astroscript a Test Run Femme can pick it off
* If the corp goes conservative to save for a Biotic, Legwork is nice to pick off their pocket agenda
* A lone SMC can be threat enough to make them build a two-ice server

Definitely weaker than Criminal vs FA, but not without some teeth.
 
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Joey Schulte
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I personally echo that you should run sneakdoor if for nothing else but to make them ice archives once or twice. it's a great surprise and often nets you at least one agenda. Legwork makes you go through HQ which they are icing anyway. Make them spread themselves out instead of piling more ice on R&D
 
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