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Subject: New Interview with Gamezone on HeroQuest 25th Anniversary. rss

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Malcolm Solo
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http://mundomachango.blogspot.com.es/2011/06/articulo-errant...

WANDERING ARTICLE (*)
BREAKFAST WITH HEROQUEST


A given hexagonal, cylindrical, with results from 1 to 6 on the faces, a result of blunder and another critic on each base, which will be less likely to access when it is released.

This is one of the pearls that left us Dionisio, primary responsibility for the campaign's Heroquest25 anniversary, when asked by the set of rules that will have this new Heroquest.

Before continue, say that it has cost us a world that we talk about in the game production. According to his own words, talk now about final things is dangerous, because until the game has been on the shelf, it may be subject to changes. Would one think: What? But it has not all clear? I guess that Yes, there are many things clear, but others less so. Remember that even when you dabais you back to the MB Heroquest box and leíais of those wonderful items captions, put it: inside the box components may vary. And in fact, varied (among other things, the rollers were round xD).

On the occasion of a workshop organized by 1300 gr, crowdfunding and trying to project of this type that most raised in this country, were invited to Gamezone managers to share their experience with all those willing to listen to him. So, over two days, we have the presence of Dionysus and his wife in Valladolid.

But at this Club there are backers of the game, which writes these lines it is not. Mainly because I always understood that Heroquest is a game for children, and that any modification that was made to the regulation would make him another game. And the truth, if I had to choose between games dungeoncrawler, I stay with Warhammer Quest without thinking twice about it.

So I have always seen very from the outside all that controversy about this edition of the Heroquest, though I have been very aware of it. According to many reports from people who really strives to discredit the project, I always thought that Heroquest 25th anniversary had taken out the quarters a few cousins freaks.

Part of this breakfast with the people of 1300 gr, where we chatted with Dionysus, we realized that, without being perhaps unjustified, people has brought everything to the extreme. The own Dionisio confessed us that the weak point of Gamezone is their line of communication with the patrons. And of course, to the misinformation, imagination. Today we have had the test, a few hours of finishing the breakfast, when, without having any Fox idea of what the very same all play discussed there, because they had hung his post reviewing everything in an article flamer that strikes me, the truth, the sea of subnormal.

In the first part of the conversation we address openly all the controversy of the crowdfunding process. Particularly not the least interested, but not that is the reason why I did not pay attention. Spoke to us about certain policies of kickstarter, why they decided to abandon the platform (not cast it, as it seems to be), on the legal issues about the Heroquest name, about his contacts with Hasbro and the blessing of the multinational, and on the final Bell. It provided many details of the process, that equal to all those who practice the legal profession as a hobby in the forums on the topic perhaps interest. But with what I'll stick with the project is serious, has been founded, and the backers money will be very well spent. We are looking for people to think: is a bargain, confessed to us.

However, he admitted that the project probably does not meet this Christmas period. Despite quadruplicate your template, the level of work is so large that they may not accept it. He said that this is normal in 90% of the crowdfunding... but well, had not been ill that they were part of that 10%, right?

In addition to the sold already in the campaign of crowdfunding, Gamezone intends a print run of 10,000 copies of the Commemorative Edition, distributed in different languages. Because that Yes, told us that each spin according to region, will be unique, both in letters and in rules language, away from the latest Spanish productions in which there are several (even simultaneously). Me, I come from the world of Board games, seems to me a fucking astronomical figure. But its market research sends, hey.

As areas of sale, said that Spain, Germany, Italy and France enjoy good health, since England look at them with some suspicion, but that in the United States treat them almost of thieves, and the bad press has crucified them. According to his experience, he told us, all Spanish is bajuno seen from the outside. We will, and from within, it seems (I say it).

About miniatures, designed with ZBrush, Dionisio reiterated us in a very specific way over quality control who want with each one of them. The chosen material is resin (that color bone, for the uninitiated), dyed green, red, or gray depending on hero or Monster (as in the old, come on). According to his words, this ink will not affect the quality.

The basic defect of this material is the appearance of air bubbles in the own miniature, but has confessed to us that it is possible to control the place of appearance on sites such as feet and areas which will be undetectable with the miniature on foot.

Otherwise, Gamezone is a company that takes 12 years making thumbnails, that they even declined the possibility of working with Mantic Games (according to Dionysius), and we are confident that the quality will rise.

As note, she told us that box format is going to move much of the standards. The box will come from factory with a kind of foam as the who bring cases in which we put the thumbnails in the armies, so that they are fixed and maintained as best as possible. According to his words, it will not only work as a game, but as a beautiful article of collector for all freak self-respecting.

And one more thing. We spoke of all materials will be of Spanish companies. No printed carton in the Czech Republic or send to make the thumbnails in China. He told us that the seal of the Spanish product is a serious commitment for them.

The background of Heroquest is one of the things that I most liked game. Games Workshop swept at the time for home and got the old world in the game, telling a story from four heroes trained Mentor who had to confront an evil sorcerer named Morcar. As well, it, or smell it. Dionisio said that while Games Workshop swept home, they will do the same. They will adapt the background that they themselves have developed for the new Heroquest.

And we reach, for me, the highlight of the day. Because I think that a game can hallucinate you in terms of art, the level of components, etc, but that a powerful mechanical is everything. Mechanics will be what you do after a game you think you've pulled the money or you made the purchase in your life.

Dionisio told us that the game will feature the version of old rules, with those dice with skulls and shields that both molaban us of children, but that the aim of the rules isn't going to repeat what came out at the time and can be found on the internet. They want to make a completely new system, based on spins modified with cylindrical hex die that I said at the beginning of the article, in which the characters do not raise level, but acquire taras and skills as they progress. Eye, that given differs from 1d8 (a question I did), in that the results of the bases of the cylinder are less likely than the faces, pulling a cylinder to the table, it is more difficult that this is on foot. My WTF face was the same as you have now.

I wanted to explore more in the set of rules, admitting that even I worried about, and did not receive much response. And even though I tell you my impression that what we counted on crowdfunding campaign and development of miniatures and cardboard convinced me and did not appear that he doubted at any moment, his silence on the subject of the regulation seemed to meet, from my point of view, more to a lack of development that excessive secrecy.

Yes said they had groups of testing rules when I myself offered to include MundoMachango as one of them, they are in fact giving you enough cane (finding bugs and shaping things). The own Dionisio spoke about his last gamer, as of all, reading role playing and board games at English, translating and modifying them to your liking. For me, I've had a very similar playful past, this is a small guarantee that this man knows what he is doing. I.e., it is not an Executive shareholder who wants to remove the game and catch pelas. But it is true that that hexagonal/rare die and its allusions to the mechanics did not let me completely quiet. I must say it.

On the future of Heroquest, because they hope to take many expansions, design tools for the community and expand the universe, and even told us about a spin-off with a somewhat more humorous Foundation. So if you very well, Heroquest will be for a while.

Also asked about the stellar crusade. I told him that it was perhaps more difficult to reproduce for the issue of licences Genestealer, Space Marine... and Dionysius resolved me problems changing four things. I.e., without telling me that they are working on it, I think seeing that they have it in mind, friends.

Ultimately, thanks to 1300 gr, to Gamezone, CuatroPlatos and Dionysius, for having similar gluing travel from Seville to chat with us and to clarify some things.

I hope that you have served this little summary, small haters. To me not helped me to interest me in the game (I have the old version and when I play it, I do it with abundant food and alcohol, such as a pachanguita) but to discover that this Heroquest25 is a serious project, that takes a lot of work, and that they are working on it.

But eye, according to what I understood, albeit Memorial is a different game, with the possibility of downgradearlo to the old version. Not backward.

Finally, as a personal contribution, I will say that I do not understand what hanging are those backers flamers who based his life in criticizing these people. Pussy, if you have doubts or she did not convince you the product, not paying it, dammit. Do like me, to pick up a copy in poor condition of the old game and put just beginning thumbnails in stands, piggy!




WANDERING PAST ARTICLES:

1 redesign of games to useless (15/08/12)
2 say the distance is oblivion (17/09/12)
3 magazine SPIKE! No. 0 (24/09/12)
4 thoughts on Twilight Struggle (01/10/12)
5. What are we doing? (10/11/12)
6 days of rain, Samantha and Heroquest (02/12/12)
7. quick rules for Zombie says (05/01/13)
8. the triumph of the Zombies (20/03/13)
9 Blood Bowl is. not all that glitters (11/05/13)
10. the loss of the goal (30/06/13)
11. one of Subbuteo (02/09/13)
12 C3 miniaturesco (15/11/13)
13. the system EVER CAMPAIGN and the reformulation bloguica (05/02/14)
14. on art, culture and games (10/04/14)

Wandering articles are the typical blog post either opinion, review or otherwise, but that are not maintained over time by our own will.
After a period of variable publishing, conditioned by our most absolute whim, is erased completely.
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J Ry
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So we're evil because we disagreed with the way everything was done regarding this entire project?
And all the misleading lies that were told?

And note of fact, they didn't abandon KS.
They were kicked off of it.

None the less, Thanks for the run down.

Interesting how the delays are already starting though......
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Mike Miller

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ropya wrote:
And note of fact, they didn't abandon KS.
They were kicked off of it.


Yup. They even wrote Kickstarter asking them to allow them to restart their campaign. And openly published that letter/email if I recall correctly.

It's just more lies and misinformation.


edit:
http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1085747/gamezones-letter-to-...
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Malcolm Solo
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I can translate this to be much clearer, if anyone wants. Or someone else can do it, if someone feels like it.
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Matt Shinners
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pha3drus wrote:
According to his experience, he told us, all Spanish is bajuno seen from the outside. We will, and from within, it seems (I say it).


I still have no idea where this BS idea that the rest of the world looks down on Spain comes from. Especially the U.S. I can't tell if they really believe it, or if it's just a way to deflect from the issues.

It does explain how many ridiculous statements we get from Spanish people on this site, though. When you have a content producer riling up the populace, accusing an entire world of hating them for being them, it's no wonder they're angry.

-Edit-
To clarify - "bajuno", in my understanding, means "low" or "base" or "of poor quality".
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J Ry
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MattShinners wrote:
pha3drus wrote:
According to his experience, he told us, all Spanish is bajuno seen from the outside. We will, and from within, it seems (I say it).


I still have no idea where this BS idea that the rest of the world looks down on Spain comes from. Especially the U.S. I can't tell if they really believe it, or if it's just a way to deflect from the issues.

It does explain how many ridiculous statements we get from Spanish people on this site, though. When you have a content producer riling up the populace, accusing an entire world of hating them for being them, it's no wonder they're angry.

-Edit-
To clarify - "bajuno", in my understanding, means "low" or "base" or "of poor quality".


Agreed.

All deflection.

I have nothing against Spaniards Or Spain.
But I'm racist because I'm American and don't like the company that happen to be in Spain.

Never mind that they are cons, liars, and at best immoral, at worst thieves.

Another point in fact, some of the loudest out crier s even here were from Spain.

Just more poor pity me BS.

All that was said to draw away from the fact that they are already running behind, 7 months BEFORE delivery.

At least they can't blame it on us American 'trolls and haters' since they are saying they themselves pulled it off KS.
So, if that were true, we can't be at fault for the delays.
cool
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Mike Miller

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Now that I think about it, there was a different message on Kickstarter until they (GZ) officially cancelled it.

So yes, they can say they cancelled it, but Kickstarter had already shut if off and was not going to restart it without a licensing deal with MDP.

It's like saying, "I quit" when the boss walks in on you stealing money from the safe. You were done one way or the other, you just technically quit before they had the option of firing you.
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Malcolm Solo
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They still seem to be saying that they have some connection and "blessing" from Hasbro in Spain:

"Spoke to us about certain policies of kickstarter, why they decided to abandon the platform (not cast it, as it seems to be), on the legal issues about the Heroquest name, about his contacts with Hasbro and the blessing of the multinational, and on the final campaign."
 
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Malcolm Solo
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It is cool that they are talking about unequally weighted hexagonal dice! That's a cool idea for the game!
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pha3drus wrote:
It is cool that they are talking about unequally weighted hexagonal dice! That's a cool idea for the game!
The way I read it, he is talking about dice with eight sides. A hexagon if you look at them from above plus the bottom and the top side resulting in eight possible results of the die roll. And he thinks it is cool that the top and bottom side will have different probabilities than the side sides... I myself think that is a horrible idea and IMHO very bad design.
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pha3drus wrote:
I can translate this to be much clearer, if anyone wants. Or someone else can do it, if someone feels like it.


No need. If you come across as a complete asshole after a babblefish translation I don't even want to know what you precisely said. The gist of it will do.
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Well, I won't speak about the already 7 months old subjects, but for the new parts, I wouldn't be that happy about those dice, i must say I see three possibilities :
1- the hexagonal dice are long, so there pretty much no chance to get on the base faces as it will rolling (supposedly 3-4cm, hummust be something like 1.2-1.5 inch ?)
2- the hexagonal dice are shorter, allowing more chances to get a stunned/critical result. Then people won't roll them, but throw them in a way to maximize the chances of getting the bases' faces, messing with the way the dice have been designed/thought about in the rules (and well, rolling them on the cylindric part would almost wipe out any chance to get a special face, so who would try that ? ).
3- the hex dice are too short, or about as deep and long as high. That way in launching them the same way as 2, resulting in a greatly increased chance of getting a special face (because that way bases would be way larger than the 6 other faces).
So if I think this idea could be interesting on the paper, i'm not sure it can lead us anywhere gameplay-wise.
 
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Matt Shinners
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Gronlokk wrote:
pha3drus wrote:
It is cool that they are talking about unequally weighted hexagonal dice! That's a cool idea for the game!
The way I read it, he is talking about dice with eight sides. A hexagon if you look at them from above plus the bottom and the top side resulting in eight possible results of the die roll. And he thinks it is cool that the top and bottom side will have different probabilities than the side sides... I myself think that is a horrible idea and IMHO very bad design.


Can't you just get your desired probabilities with other, regular dice and messing with what's on the sides? Seems like a more-difficult solution to a problem that's already been solved.
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Malcolm Solo
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My guess is you could always play it with a regular 8-sided die, with all equal sides. But it makes the game harder or maybe easier if you play with a regular 8 sided dice. Not sure of the new rules.

The new dice will change the probabilities later to tweak the game.

Or maybe it could look like this!

7 sided dice!



Edit: from here http://mike-naylor.blogspot.ca/2012/10/7-sided-dice-with-act...

Author of blog wonders if they are equally weighted. My guess is no, but must be pretty close to equally weighted.
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The blog info's based on desayunoscreativos, a "Breakfast with the Creators" (lit. Creative Breakfast) interview.
http://www.miltrescientosgramos.com/desayunos-creativos-con-...

Here's also their Twitter, translated:

Quote:
Finished with event # desayunoscreativos Heroquest25, I leave what little I've read, since the communication is too terse Twitter: .

1 -. Were Because they've started counting kickstarter, legal patent issues USA and Spain stalled project and decided to switch to a Spanish funding platform hashtag Verkami In no mention passing through, do not know If They said at breakfast. .

2 - Production in Spain, not in China or India (nothing new, although you must expect That it was part of an event crownfounding workshop).

3 -. 're With the scenery and Have Already started production bases. .

4 - Recognizes that failed in communication , and do not see fit to make a fan of informative Bridge Between the company and the patron, but thank you. .

5 - The rules and scenarios are being tested. .

6 - For the June event all prototypes are completed will be presented. .

7 - We Might Have an extra surprise for patrons Between content, the question asked included the tavern, his response was "It could be , if we are in time, we would love to. " That was all


http://www.heroquest.es/index.php?topic=9078.9255

Still no posted update on the GZ HQ25 crowdfunding site:
http://www.lanzanos.com/proyectos/heroquest-25-aniversario/n...

Weird way of providing info to the backers, but still lets them provide information without having to answer questions to anyone, I suppose.
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Malcolm Solo
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From their twitter site:

https://twitter.com/1300gr

"miltrescientosgramos ‏@1300gr 13h
Vamos a hacer una edición completa en español, inglés, alemán, italiano, francés y portugués."

Looks like they will be writing up a full article and translating it properly.

 
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pha3drus wrote:
They still seem to be saying that they have some connection and "blessing" from Hasbro in Spain:

"Spoke to us about certain policies of kickstarter, why they decided to abandon the platform (not cast it, as it seems to be), on the legal issues about the Heroquest name, about his contacts with Hasbro and the blessing of the multinational, and on the final campaign."


DESAYUNO CON HEROQUEST wrote:
Nos habló de ciertas políticas de kickstarter por las que ellos decidieron abandonar la plataforma (no lo echaron, como parece decirse), sobre los temas legales sobre el nombre Heroquest, sobre sus contactos con Hasbro y el beneplácito de la multinacional , y sobre la campaña final.


I think this is only a slightly different translation (mine):
"He spoke to us about certain policies of Kickstarter, for which they decided to abandon the platform (not thrown out, as it seems to be said), about the legal issues regarding the name Heroquest, about their contacts with Hasbro and the approval of the multinational, and about the final campaign."

Although I don't believe it, from the original Spanish they are quite clearly claiming the approval/blessing of Hasbro-US, not Hasbro-Iberia.

This is not even remotely phrased along the lines of "we don't need their permission." It is without question phrased in terms of "we have Hasbro-US' approval."
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pha3drus wrote:
It is cool that they are talking about unequally weighted hexagonal dice! That's a cool idea for the game!


I thought of these when they mentioned that.


Customizable dice like for Xevox would be awesome.

Also thought of these.



and these. Of which I have a few sets from the 90s.

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petercox wrote:
And now they're talking about making Space Crusade too.

Incredible.


They have been talking about also doing Space Crusade since the Lanzanos. Possibly earlier.
 
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pha3drus wrote:
... Translation of rambling, sycophantic and entirely uncritical article ...


Thanks for the translation and finding it, but this just increases my anger/disgust/cynicism with regard to these people.

To sum up the Gamezone alternative universe:

1. The game may be nothing like backers have been shown so far.
2. Gamezone abandoned Kickstarter and were not kicked off.
3. Gamezone have been in contact with Hasbro, the multinational side of it not just the Iberian side, who provided them with lots of help, and by implication have approved of the project.
4. No-one on the internet critical of this knows what they are talking about.
5. Heroquest25 is going to be late, but so are lots of Kickstarter projects.
6. The people critical of Gamezone are the ones responsible for misinformation.
7. The game might not be sold in England or the USA and people there hate Spain.
8. There will be defects in the models.
9. The quality of the models will rise.
10. They have developed a new background/setting.
11. They will be including the original rules with the same dice, but they won't be the same, but you can find them on the internet anyway so what's the problem?
12. Their system sounds weird and doesn't sound finished.
13. They have no experience designing rules but they like games so that should be enough and will make translation no problem because they read some in English themselves once.
14. They will make expansions.
15. They are going to steal Space Crusade too.
16. And the authors opinion - if you don't like it, shut up and don't buy it.

And in reality:

1. Bait and switch, show something that looks great to draw people in then give them something else and say "Oh those, well they were just concepts." No surprise there.
2. Technically half true sort of. They did indeed decide not to pursue the reinstatement of their project on Kickstarter, but only because they knew they had no chance. Kickstarter pulled it, and then so did Verkami - they didn't abandon Verkami, but notice they don't mention that because it doesn't fit the "noble victims/heroic abandonment" narrative.
3. If they have approval from Hasbro, and have had consultation with Hasbro at the international corporate level not just the Iberian branch, then why did they not provide this proof to Kickstarter AND Moon Design and thus avoid all of this and why have neither company stated this publicly and unambiguously?
4. Wrong.
5. No surprise there. remember this though, Gamezone repeatedly assured backers that the trouble over the Kickstarter would not cause delay because they had continued to work on it throughout the whole thing AND said they had been working on it for several months before launching on Kickstarter. So they've had a year on this already, and there are 7 months to go, and they are already saying it is going to be late.
6. Complete bollocks.
7. Some of the most vocal critics were from Spain and they will avoid selling openly in the USA and England because they know that is where the most likely legal challenges they can't win will come from - and apparently still don't understand there are potential issues in those other countries anyway. But, a more important point - they know there are issues with this game in the USA and England but they have not said anything about this to backers from there who they must suspect/know will not or might not receive their game. That alone makes them morally compromised.
8. Their other lines of models have been known to have problems, and resin has caused problems in the past for other manufacturers - they are now simply preempting complaints they know they are going to get about the finished product.
9. Implying that right now the quality is not great. See previous point.
10. To try to avoid getting sued.
11. But that avoidance may still fail.
12. No game design experience but trying something novel and unique (or terrible and unplayable, take your pick).
13. The rulebooks are going to be terrible.
14. They think they have a future.
15. They have no original ideas but are willing to try to cash in on anything that someone else put the work into establishing.
16. The author thinks people should not have critical opinions on stuff they want.

This all looks like it is going exactly as people have predicted or known it would.

EDIT: Expanded on my take of point 7.
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Malcolm Solo
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ha! I didn't translate it yet. Just pumped the text into Bing's translator, because I read somewhere that it is better than Google's. But I doubt that, a bit.

Anyways, I was offering to clear up some of the more poorly translated parts. But for the most, people seem to be able to figure it out.

I think its a mix of the author's opinion, with bits and pieces of possible quotes from Dionisio. Not sure how close to the mark they are.
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MattShinners wrote:
pha3drus wrote:
According to his experience, he told us, all Spanish is bajuno seen from the outside. We will, and from within, it seems (I say it).


I still have no idea where this BS idea that the rest of the world looks down on Spain comes from. Especially the U.S. I can't tell if they really believe it, or if it's just a way to deflect from the issues.

It does explain how many ridiculous statements we get from Spanish people on this site, though. When you have a content producer riling up the populace, accusing an entire world of hating them for being them, it's no wonder they're angry.

-Edit-
To clarify - "bajuno", in my understanding, means "low" or "base" or "of poor quality".


Some extreme left-sided spaniards have mild hostile feelings towards the USA, fueled in part by left-winged TV channels. Think of it as similar to the speech of South American socialist countries, but much softer and with no personal insults. I don't want to get specific in order to avoid political discussions, just wanted to confirm that such mindset exists.

Gamezone has taken advantage of this mindset playing the nationality card since the first problem with Moon Designs ("evil imperialistic yankees don't want a Spanish small company to be successful on their playfield, how dare them!"), and sadly many Spanish fellows are buying it. It's amazing how the speech of Gamezone followers shifts when they write in BGG and when they write in Spanish forums.

"Bajuno" is the way an uncultured, ignorant villager would say "bajo". It became popular slang after a TV comedy program started using it. You got the meaning right.


ropya wrote:
[q="MattShinners"][q="pha3drus"]According to his experience,
At least they can't blame it on us American 'trolls and haters' since they are saying they themselves pulled it off KS.
So, if that were true, we can't be at fault for the delays.
cool


Have no doubt that they WILL blame you.

Official GZ statements imply that there is a mysterious "trolls-hacker-haters" Anonymous-like organization crusading against them, DDoS-ing their servers and spreading hate among forums. This is so stupid that I have seen many eyebrows raised among inconditional backers, but still some spanish fellows are buying this.

I think Gamezone is maneuvering in order to blame any HQ25 detractors for any failure that happens to HQ25, thus evading their own responsability.

Lovely, isn't it?

Edited 2 times: grammar.
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Donny Behne
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Hollyhock wrote:

I think Gamezone is maneuvering in order to blame any HQ25 detractors for any failure that happens to HQ25, thus evading their own responsability.


GameZone might be more genius than we give them credit for. They're already creating their out when this thing inevitably goes south. "It's not our fault, blame the haters!" Brilliant...
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kelann08 wrote:
Hollyhock wrote:

I think Gamezone is maneuvering in order to blame any HQ25 detractors for any failure that happens to HQ25, thus evading their own responsability.


GameZone might be more genius than we give them credit for. They're already creating their out when this thing inevitably goes south. "It's not our fault, blame the haters!" Brilliant...


Of course.
I was being sarcastic earlier.

We will of course be blamed.
Of that I have no doubt.

Just goes more to show the character of the people behind the project.
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Matt Shinners
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ropya wrote:
kelann08 wrote:
Hollyhock wrote:

I think Gamezone is maneuvering in order to blame any HQ25 detractors for any failure that happens to HQ25, thus evading their own responsability.


GameZone might be more genius than we give them credit for. They're already creating their out when this thing inevitably goes south. "It's not our fault, blame the haters!" Brilliant...


Of course.
I was being sarcastic earlier.

We will of course be blamed.
Of that I have no doubt.

Just goes more to show the character of the people behind the project.


Yea, I just don't know what that blame will accomplish. There will be the die-hard fans who blame the "haters" and never would have blamed GZ anyway, but there will be others who blame GZ, and GZ is the one who will be on the hook. A court won't buy this international anti-Spain/anti-GZ conspiracy as a defense to...well...anything.
 
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