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Marvel Dice Masters: Avengers vs. X-Men» Forums » Rules

Subject: U Rogue and Action Dice rss

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Max Maloney
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The uncommon version of Rogue ("Anna Marie") has an ability with the following wording (in part):

"When fielded, capture an opposing action die from the used pile or reserve pool. ..."

I have underlined a portion of this because it seems as if it does not work. According to the rulebook, in the section on Cleanup for end of turn, it says:

"Any actions still in a player's reserve pool are moved to the used pile."

As I read this, you cannot save Actions in your reserve pool into your opponent's turn. This means Rogue would never be able to take an action from an opponent's reserve pool.

Does this seem correct? If so, I assume the wording is in place to allow for unusual actions that may be printed in the future, which break the ordinary rule.
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Nicholas P.
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I guess it's future proofing for if there is ever an action die that you can keep in your reserve?
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Richard Taylor
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I believe that ability is to deal with the likes of Vibranium Shield which stays in play "touching" a dice. Yes it is very limited to use but with future expansions this card might see a lot of use. Please note I used the shield as an example of a card that stays in play when it should be removed and not a reasonable use of Rogues power as it does not stay in the reserve but is played to the Fielded zone.
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Heath K
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Your opponent could still have unused energy from an action die in his reserve pool. Only the unused actions themselves get moved to the used at the end of the turn.

One thing to remember is unused energy stays in the reserve pool until the clear and draw phase.
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Richard Taylor
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Oooh I never thought of that.

Fantastic thinking Heath.
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Robbie Scargill
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pg. 20 "Rolled dice in the field or in your reserve pool are considered to be whatever their face is."

An action die showing energy in the reserve pool is an energy die.

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Mason Skinner
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So, there is either an error on Rogue's card in mentioning capturing action dice from the reserve pool. Or, there is an error in the rules that states action dice are put in the used pile during cleanup phase.

Most of the basic actions would be viable during your opponent's turn: Focus Power, Force Beam, Gearing Up?, Inner Rage, Power Bolt, Smash!, and Take Cover. This is very interesting. I don't know why you would wait to use some of these actions until your opponent's turn, but I haven't dug too deep into the timing.
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Kevin Worth
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huskyskins wrote:
So, there is either an error on Rogue's card in mentioning capturing action dice from the reserve pool. Or, there is an error in the rules that states action dice are put in the used pile during cleanup phase.


Not necessarily, as mentioned earlier in the thread it could just be future proofing. Maybe one of the promo cards will be an action that says keep this action until it is used.
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Mason Skinner
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I understand your premise, but I don't necessarily agree. Why would some future action be allowed to remain, but not the ones in the base set? Most of the current ones are viable on your opponent's turn.

No, I'm sticking with there's an error in one of the two places. It is probably Rogue's card. There was probably a beta version that had action dice remaining in the reserve pool. That was dropped during play-testing or development, and the card text was overlooked. It happens.
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Kevin Worth
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Why? Maybe WizKids wants it to be a special power for one of their promo cards.

I could easily see a Vibranium Shield as something like this
'Give one character +2A. If Capt America is active then keep this action in your reserve pool until it is used.'
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Mason Skinner
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There's two reasons I find this to be unlikely in this circumstance. By all indications, WizKids had no idea if this game was going to be a hit, or be a flop (see underestimated demand for starter sets). So, building future dynamics into the current cards would be wishful thinking. Second, there are no other cards that have abilities, or portions thereof, that do not work with the current run of cards. Sure, there are some that are limited by type (villains, Avengers, X-Men specfic abilities), but they all work with what was provided in this iteration of the game.

Just my feeling based on the likelyhood of the possible reasons, but I believe there is an error that we'll be seeing addressed somewhere on a future FAQ/Errata.
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Tim Ford
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Could be a playtest version of the card that never got updated as the game got closer to finalized.

Maybe at one point in development dice in your reserve maintained their type whatever side was facing up and it caused problems in some way or they felt it made things cleaner if the die became the type it was showing - you can't field the energy side of a character die because it's not a character.

Maybe when rogue is in play it makes action dice with energy sides facing action dice again

No idea. As it is though it's got wording that is unusable in the current incarnation of the game and that adds confusion. Not a great design decision imho if they did that on purpose; let's add text that does absolutely nothing until 2 expansions from now to a card to make people ask more questions about a newly released game and get people making houserules or questioning whether action dice are REALLY supposed to be energy dice while in reserve or if the mistake is the rulebook rather than the card.

I've seen this sort of thing done with keywords that do nothing but it's specifically mentioned in the rulebook that keyword x currently does nothing but may in the future.
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Mason Skinner
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Just to clarify - currently, there is absolutely no use to the player to have generic energy laying around in their reserve pool on the opponent's turn. You cannot activate any of the current global abilities with generic energy.

I see the "action dice showing energy are still action dice" as the least likely possibility of those posed. Followed by the "future card synergy" being only slightly more likely.
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Tim Ford
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I'm not sure if the action die being energy because it has energy side facing up is really an option or a possibility. It's what the rules say. Now we can houserule it or debate it of course

How else could we interpret p20/21 of the rules:


Rolled dice in the field or in your reserve pool are considered to be whatever their face is. If you have a Sidekick die in the reserve pool showing energy, then it’s an energy die. If you have a Sidekick showing the character face in your field, then it’s a character die.

Dice in your used pile, prep area, and bag are not considered rolled dice. Their dice type is either character or action, based on what faces they have.


I mean, we are trying to interpret what they meant the Rogue card to do but based on the rules as written it's pretty clear cut what she actually does. She can capture actions from her opponents used pile. The bit about actions in reserve would have to be reworded either on her card or in the rulebook in order for her to capture an action in the reserve; as it stands that part of the ability has no legal target.

If we are going to say that actions in the reserve pool are still actions why aren't characters? There's no support in the rules for either case. The only specific example given is for Sidekicks.
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Robbie Scargill
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huskyskins wrote:
Just to clarify - currently, there is absolutely no use to the player to have generic energy laying around in their reserve pool on the opponent's turn. You cannot activate any of the current global abilities with generic energy.


I think only the uncommon Magneto has a use for the generic energy but it's not a global ability.

"While Magneto is active, you may pay 2 energy to spin a villain up one level." Assuming, of course, that you can use that ability on your opponent's turn.
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Brandon M
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huskyskins wrote:
By all indications, WizKids had no idea if this game was going to be a hit, or be a flop (see underestimated demand for starter sets).


Counter point - They already had mock ups of the next set (Uncanny X-Men) at GAMA and they have released a few details about characters in that set already.

Exhibit A - http://wizkidsgames.com/blog/2014/04/09/wizkids-games-announ...

Exhibit B - Uncanny X-Men Dice Leak! ENHANCE!!!

Exhibit C - Uncanny X-Men (pic)

That all gives me the impression that they have at least put in a tiny bit of planning into the system.

It could be a typo/prototype hold over, but I think it is a little early to dismiss the "future proof" theory if they already have another expansion in the chamber ready to go.
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Richard Taylor
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I think it works like Green Goblins "roll 2 sidekicks from the used pile..." ability. The ability refers to a dice type and not the facing of the targeted dice.

Hope I explained myself properly and if not the simplified Q&A below is probably a better way to explain how I see it.

Q: When is an action dice not an action dice?

A: Never. It is always an action dice.
 
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