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Subject: Citrus action tiles... rss

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Francesco Testini
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I have some doubts when I play this game, so I will try to ask you all. The rules state that when I buy some plantations and the tiles in the market are reduced to three or less, I must first place a new finca and a new building site, then do my actions and then (only at the end) refill the market.

But here's the problem: what happens if during my actions (and so before to refill) I use a bonus tile which allows me to place a new finca and refill? Should I refill soon or always wait the end of my actions to refill? If I refill soon, and later on the same turn I use another bonus tile which allows me to take a tile from the market for free, at the end of my actions should i refill that empty space too?

I think it's a very nice game and we play it very often; but I also think there are many special cases (most of them regarding the bonus tiles usage) that are not covered in the rules booklet.
 
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Tim Collett
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How we have been playing it is the bonus tiles are independent of the refill process.

For instance, if you use the bonus tile to place a new finca, that is fine but that doesn't trigger a refill until you do the actual finca placement action for the refill of the market and not the bonus action.

Also, you don't ever refill the market until it is down to 3 tiles or less so if the market is refilled, and you use a bonus action to take a tile for free from the market, then the market is down to 11 and won't refill until it is down to 3 or less.



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Francesco Testini
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Thank you for replying. From the way you play it seems that you do the finca placement (triggered by having three or less tiles in the market) at the end of your turn; but the rules state that it's the first action you should do.

When there are three or less tiles:
1. Place the new finca and the new building site
2. Place your plantations (and use your bonus tiles if possible)
3. Refill
 
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Francesco Testini
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Another question is... what happens if the market plantations are reduced to three or less after a player uses a carriage bonus tile (take a plantation tile from the market for free)?
 
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Chris Tan
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franktest77 wrote:
But here's the problem: what happens if during my actions (and so before to refill) I use a bonus tile which allows me to place a new finca and refill? Should I refill soon or always wait the end of my actions to refill? If I refill soon, and later on the same turn I use another bonus tile which allows me to take a tile from the market for free, at the end of my actions should i refill that empty space too?


I think you have asked a couple very intricate questions here, but not in a very clear way; I beleive what you are trying to say is "1. Does ActionTile: Cart comes before Refill or after? and 2. Should ActionTile: Milestone's Refill function be enforced regardless the "3 or less" rule?

I think the confusion comes from the ActionTile: Cart's rule description: Take any one plantation from the market for free and build it immediately. The word "immediately" kinda gets in fight with the New Finca/Refill rule: If, after you take plantations from the market, there are 3 or fewer plantations remaining there, you must immediately build a new finca...(refill phase).

As I interpret it, the Refill phase is entirely separated, hence independent, and must take priority than any other actions/tiles. So ActionTile: Cart is used after the Refill.

I'm not 100% sure on the ActionTile: Milestone, it seems to me the fill plantation market part is forced regardless the "3 or less" rule.
 
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Francesco Testini
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Sorry, I was not very clear with explaining my doubts because of my english... I will try to explain them better using some examples:

Problem nr.1: Milestone Action Tile

Rules state (page 6) that there are three steps: "First the Finca, then build plantations, then refill the market".

What happens if during the second step "build plantations" I use a Milestone Bonus Tile? I think I should refill soon following the milestone rules and so I think I should skip the third step "..., then refill the market". It's a subtle difference I know, but I think it's important to know how things really work.

Problem nr.2: Cart Action Tile

Rules state (page 7) about Cart Action Tile: "Take any one plantation from the market for free and build it immediately". What happens if doing so in the market there are only three or less plantations remaining? In which order should I do the actions?

First assumption:
1. Use the cart action tile
2. Take a free plantation from the market (triggers the "three or less plantation in the market" state)
3. Place the plantation that I got for free on the board
4. Place a new finca and a new building site
5. Place all my remaining plantations (if I still have)
6. Refill the market

Second assumption:
1. Use the cart action tile
2. Take a free plantation from the market (triggers the "three or less plantation in the market" state)
3. Place a new finca and a new building site
4. Place the plantation that I got for free on the board
5. Place all my remaining plantations (if I still have) on the board
6. Refill the market

Third assumption:
1. Use the cart action tile
2. Take a free plantation from the market (triggers the "three or less plantation in the market" state)
3. Place the plantation that I got for free on the board
4. Place a new finca and a new building site
5. Refill the market
6. Place all my remaining plantations (if I still have)

I think here the difference is also very subtle, but still important.

Problem nr.3: End game situation

What happens when the "three or fewer plantations remaining" situation is triggered and there is no other plantation in the bag? Should I anyway build a new finca if possible?

Thank you all for replying.
Francesco
 
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Jon Ben
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For what it's worth here are my thoughts.

franktest77 wrote:
Sorry, I was not very clear with explaining my doubts because of my english... I will try to explain them better using some examples:

Problem nr.1: Milestone Action Tile

Rules state (page 6) that there are three steps: "First the Finca, then build plantations, then refill the market".

What happens if during the second step "build plantations" I use a Milestone Bonus Tile? I think I should refill soon following the milestone rules and so I think I should skip the third step "..., then refill the market". It's a subtle difference I know, but I think it's important to know how things really work.


Yes you should refill following the Milestone tile. However this does not skip the refill step at the end of your turn, it just means that it may not do anything. For example you may play the Milestone then refill then play a Cart so that the refill action due to '3 or fewer plantation tiles' does add one tile at the end of your turn. I think this is consistent with a strict reading of the rules.

Quote:
Problem nr.2: Cart Action Tile

Rules state (page 7) about Cart Action Tile: "Take any one plantation from the market for free and build it immediately". What happens if doing so in the market there are only three or less plantations remaining? In which order should I do the actions?


I don't think the Cart is able to trigger a refill. The refill procedure is described in the context of a buy plantation tiles action. You only refill in that way if after purchasing plantation tiles there are 3 or fewer.

Quote:
Problem nr.3: End game situation

What happens when the "three or fewer plantations remaining" situation is triggered and there is no other plantation in the bag? Should I anyway build a new finca if possible?


There is another thread about how this rule breaks down in the end game.
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/15163358#15163358

Jeffrey Allers wrote:
...once the bag is empty after refilling the market, a new Finca will only be added one final time after the number of tiles in the market is reduced to 3 or less.

If the market is filled with only 3 tiles when emptying the bag, then no additional Fincas are placed.
 
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Francesco Testini
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Thank you for your reply. About the second question you said "I don't think the Cart is able to trigger a refill. The refill procedure is described in the context of a buy plantation tiles action. You only refill in that way if after purchasing plantation tiles there are 3 or fewer".

Let's say there are still 4 plantations remaining in the market and there's a remote possibility that I have 4 cart bonuses (yes I know it's hard to happen, but still possible). What happens if I use all the four cart bonuses and then the market is empty? If the refill is not triggered as you said, then the market remains empty? So what will the next player do?

In conclusion, though I still like the idea of the game, I must say that there are some things not explained in the rules and no one knows how to deal with them (and the author doesn't reply). Another thing is the scarce effort put in trying to settle the game, that is completely abstract. So is this a well done product?
 
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Hopefully this will be cleared up in the newer edition.
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