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Ambush!» Forums » Rules

Subject: normal fire & penetration rss

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Gator Skin
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Evanston
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Suddenly I wondered if I was screwing this up:

I have a man inside a wooden building, crouching at the window. He is shot upon by a Panzer's bow machine gun. Do I:

a) Roll for machine-gun fire through an aperture
b) Roll for machine-gun fire against a wall (+4, etc.)
c) A, then B

I'm thinking now it should be (c). Because even if I failed to hit the soldier through the window, it could hit him via penetration (or vice versa). So I have to do both, right?

OR is "penetration fire" only be to assessed against wall hexes WITHOUT an aperture?
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Seth Owen
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gatorskin wrote:
Suddenly I wondered if I was screwing this up:

I have a man inside a wooden building, crouching at the window. He is shot upon by a Panzer's bow machine gun. Do I:

a) Roll for machine-gun fire through an aperture
b) Roll for machine-gun fire against a wall (+4, etc.)
c) A, then B

I'm thinking now it should be (c). Because even if I failed to hit the soldier through the window, it could hit him via penetration (or vice versa). So I have to do both, right?

OR is "penetration fire" only be to assessed against wall hexes WITHOUT an aperture?


I don't think double jeopardy is warranted. The fire through the aperture can be considered to include the chances of going through the wall.
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Ruben Rigillo
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Never apply both. They are two different types of shots.
Actually Germans should never be allowed to shoot walls unless you use this Optional rules

Quote:
9.6 Optional Rule [PH] Some of the maps contain quite a few buildings. The German soldiers and vehicles, however, have no provision for firing at targets lying prone in building hexes, because they are not in sight, and therefore not valid targets, even though German weapons are quite capable of penetrating buildings. The following optional German action is highly suggested because it allows the German soldiers to fire at these hidden targets, Letting them do so is much more realistic, and evens things up a bit. If a German soldier has fired at a visible target in a wooden building hex, receives a subsequent order to fire again, but has no target because the US soldier has since fallen prone, the German may now fire at the wall in an attempt to achieve a penetration result. Conduct the following procedure for the German:
1. If the paragraph gives no other options for the German (i.e., move, surrender, throw a grenade, etc.), the German conducts a PC Check: If successful, the German will fire at the wall; if fails, the German will do nothing.
2. If the German is allowed to fire at the wall, he will crouch and conduct the procedure outlined in 13.5 of the Ambush! rules.
NOTE: A German tank will conduct the same procedure outlined above, but will fire its main gun at a stone wall, its coaxial or bow MG at a wooden wall.
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Ruben, I'm not sure that's right. The main rules do include instructions for tanks to shoot at walls.

They key section from 17.8 of the rules (my italics):

Quote:
A German tank will fire its main gun at the building wall when instructed to fire at a soldier in the building (getting a +4 modifier). It will fire only its MGs at a soldier visible behind a stone wall, and its main gun at the wall when the soldier is "known" to it but invisible (prone).


So... it seems to me that if a soldier is "known" to a tank, that tank will fire it's main gun at the wall regardless if the soldier is standing at an aperture or not. It will also fire its MGs at a soldier visible behind a stone wall.*

* why not wood walls too? I have no idea.

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Ruben Rigillo
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Hi Gat!
The rulebook you refer to is the paper one from the box or the errata integrated one from the file section?
Unfortunately I have not my original RB at hand, and cannot check the "original" 17.8.
So perhaps I was wrong but is it possible the one you quote is the revised paragraph AFTER the errata I wrote about?
Let us know!
 
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Yes--the rule book I have is the updated way from the internet. So if there was errata with this rule, I'm sure my version has incorporated it.

This whole issue is surprisingly fuzzy after all of these years!
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Ruben Rigillo
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Let's try to summarize.
Targets in buildings. German Tanks firing.
Main Guns always at the wall. +4. If hit, wall collapses and everybody inside is hit using a weapon line I can't remember.
...and this hurts a lot!
MGs....I can't remember exactly the odds when firing "through aperture", but Since penetration shots hit just on 0/prone, 0-1/crouch and 0-2/standing target, this would be better used JUST for non visible targets.
The only matter is to be honest in treating targets as "known" though hiding and "unknown".
Anyway, to return to your ORIGINAL question: penetration OR through aperture, one OR the other, never both.
You have the game more fresh than me and you are surely able to figure well all this matter!

...I should keep the dust off my copy sometime....
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