Scott Pitner
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The thread title alludes to the majority of my question.

If I use superior intellect to steal an upgrade from an opponent, how does it affect fleet points, if at all?

In my specific scenario - I stole Sulu from the enemy. The ship that Sulu was originally on did NOT blow up. The ship that I stole Sulu with also did NOT blow up. This *might* work similarly to the reinforcements sideboard? If I had a 99 point build and stole Sulu would I go up to essentially a 102 point build and if my opponent blew up nothing he would technically store -2 points? Would points only be scored either way if one or the other ship blew up? Very curious as to what happens to those 3 points...

This would also apply to Borg Assimilation Tubules.
 
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Ted Kay
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You score points if ships blow up. If you don't, they're worth the points they initially had. The only time this isn't true is when the Reinforcements Sideboard mucks it all up.
 
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Scott Pitner
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FortuneFavorTheBold wrote:
You score points if ships blow up. If you don't, they're worth the points they initially had. The only time this isn't true is when the Reinforcements Sideboard mucks it all up.


So what if my ship blows up? His card goes away. Those points still wouldn't be scored anywhere provided his original ship doesn't blow up? That both makes sense and doesn't make sense.
 
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Will Sanchez
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Seems pretty straightforward to me (the situation, not Ted's answer...)

Fleets points is "Maximum squadron Points - Opponent's Surviving fleet". Is the card on one of your opponent's surviving ships? if not, it's not part of the Surviving fleet.

On the flip side, cards you did not spend points on (like sideboard cards, or bonuses for United Force) do not count toward your surviving fleet, so anything you stole probably should not be counted for the opponent's scoring either. (When determining your opponent's fleet points)
 
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Ted Kay
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stpitner wrote:
FortuneFavorTheBold wrote:
You score points if ships blow up. If you don't, they're worth the points they initially had. The only time this isn't true is when the Reinforcements Sideboard mucks it all up.


So what if my ship blows up? His card goes away. Those points still wouldn't be scored anywhere provided his original ship doesn't blow up? That both makes sense and doesn't make sense.


Sorry- looking back at this I realize I was probably too tired to be making sound rationalization. zombie

Regardless of where cards end up during a match, with a few exceptions like the Sideboard or DS9 away parties, my understanding is the answer tends to be that when a ship is destroyed, the points it was worth as fielded are what is scored. For example, if I use Cheat Death, my opponent gets the points for the card when my ship is later destroyed, despite the discard. If Superior Intellect counts as an exception, I have not seen the ruling as such.
 
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Scott Pitner
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delta_angelfire wrote:
Seems pretty straightforward to me (the situation, not Ted's answer...)

Fleets points is "Maximum squadron Points - Opponent's Surviving fleet". Is the card on one of your opponent's surviving ships? if not, it's not part of the Surviving fleet.

On the flip side, cards you did not spend points on (like sideboard cards, or bonuses for United Force) do not count toward your surviving fleet, so anything you stole probably should not be counted for the opponent's scoring either. (When determining your opponent's fleet points)


So let me go into more detail on what happened.

I had a 99 point fleet. He had a 100 point fleet. Time was called before any ships blew up (I just needed one more hit!) During the round I used Superior Intellect to steal Sulu from his ship.

So who should have won? I declared it as he won 1-0, but then I later realized that if I stole Sulu, should I have actually won 3-1?

Annoying low score, but at the end of the day it made a difference on who won a DS9...
 
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Will Sanchez
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yeah, its not in his fleet any more so its not part of his surviving fleet. The same thing would happen if you hit it with one of the crew gankers like bochra or klag.
 
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Scott Pitner
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delta_angelfire wrote:
yeah, its not in his fleet any more so its not part of his surviving fleet. The same thing would happen if you hit it with one of the crew gankers like bochra or klag.


So in your mind I should have won that one. I see this as different than Bochra or Klag as those just make the person discard the card - those points don't get scored similar to any other upgrade that is a use and discard until the ship blows up.

Might be a good idea to get a ruling on this since there are a couple cards that actual remove cards from another fleet.
 
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Kristoff Bergenholm
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stpitner wrote:
delta_angelfire wrote:
yeah, its not in his fleet any more so its not part of his surviving fleet. The same thing would happen if you hit it with one of the crew gankers like bochra or klag.


So in your mind I should have won that one. I see this as different than Bochra or Klag as those just make the person discard the card - those points don't get scored similar to any other upgrade that is a use and discard until the ship blows up.

Might be a good idea to get a ruling on this since there are a couple cards that actual remove cards from another fleet.


Any card that is discarded as part of the cost still counts as 'surviving' as long as the ship survives. If you discard an opponents' upgrade through a ganker or similar, this does not happen.
 
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Eric Little
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delta_angelfire wrote:
yeah, its not in his fleet any more so its not part of his surviving fleet. The same thing would happen if you hit it with one of the crew gankers like bochra or klag.


Is there an official ruling on this somewhere?
 
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Will Sanchez
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Just what's in the scenario rules for how to score fleet points.

FLEET POINTS: Players receive FLEET POINTS at the end of every Battle Round. Fleet Points are used to break ties of players’ Win/Loss records for purposes of determining round pairings and final ranks. Fleet Points are equal to the current month's maximum Fleet Build number MINUS the number of SP left in your opponent's surviving fleet. A player who receives a Bye will receive a number of Fleet Points equal to the average of all other players’ Fleet Points for that round (rounded up). Fleet Points are recorded on players’ Fleet Build Sheets as well as on the Score Sheet.

SURVIVING FLEET:
A play er's surviving Fleet includes: 1) any of that player's ships that are not destroyed, 2) any Upgrades those ships are still equipped with, and 3) any Upgrades that are placed under the ship card. NOTE: Any Upgrades that a player discards to use for their text ability are placed under the ship card on which They were equipped. Any Upgrades that are under a ship that was destroyed are also destroyed.
 
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Eric Little
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Thanks Will.
 
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