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Subject: I think the way the KS is presented is a potential turnoff rss

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I stumbled on the game browsing through the kickstarter tabletop games section. I almost immediately just hit back on the browser before even looking at the game because of seeing all tiers but one or two being sold out.

Although it shed some light on the situation after read what all those tiers were, I think it serves as an immediate turnoff. Nothing you can do about it now though.

Personally I didn't back because the beta box looked the best and is the only box that holds everything and it was sold out. Also the stretch goals were unclear. For instance, I have no idea what "The Brawler" adds to the game beyond the obvious of a brawler. Is it new cards, new components, etc?
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I think those are some valid points. I've been following this game from day one and never realized too many early bird tiers could clutter the rest.

About the beta box: do you think it's the best just because it has a box big enough for the game and its expansion? I'm curious if more people think that having one big box is worth the higher price.

Did you turn on the reminder and would you consider backing if the main page explained things better?
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Manuel Ingeland
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Now if there was a PnP pledge tier....
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Jason Webster
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the_vinman wrote:
I think those are some valid points. I've been following this game from day one and never realized too many early bird tiers could clutter the rest.

About the beta box: do you think it's the best just because it has a box big enough for the game and its expansion? I'm curious if more people think that having one big box is worth the higher price.

Did you turn on the reminder and would you consider backing if the main page explained things better?


Bigger box to hold everything is worth the price !!!!!

Easier for me to bring to game days that are not at my house
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Queen improved the early bird turnoff problem by having flash sales where you could get the game for the early bird price for one day only.

It was an amazing marketing strategy.
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Theodore Martinovich
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It's WAY too expensive for what is offered imo... for this price you could get the agents with all the expansions with their new KS or a tn of other options... Would back if it was reasonable but yeah.... not for me
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the_vinman wrote:
I think those are some valid points. I've been following this game from day one and never realized too many early bird tiers could clutter the rest.

About the beta box: do you think it's the best just because it has a box big enough for the game and its expansion? I'm curious if more people think that having one big box is worth the higher price.

Did you turn on the reminder and would you consider backing if the main page explained things better?


The size of the box quantitatively makes it superior in my opinion. Subjectively, I think it's appearance is also superior to the others.

Yes I did turn on the reminder. I managed to figure out the things I couldn't originally. For me, I think it is too expensive for what is offered. I'm not complaining about the price, I fully understand they have to charge what they are comfortable with to be able to fulfill their pledges.

My main point of posting was to try to help out with getting more backers to the project by pointing out the issues I had as a first time observer of the kickstarter.
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neoshmengi wrote:
Queen improved the early bird turnoff problem by having flash sales where you could get the game for the early bird price for one day only.

It was an amazing marketing strategy.


I wasn't necessarily turned off by missing the early bird pricing. Seeing so many sold out tiers gave me the original impression that I must have missed all the good stuff already so I almost gave up bothering to read what was left.
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Joe Bowers
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I don't see the value in this project, it seems way way overpriced.
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Aaron Morgan
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Topdecker577 wrote:
I don't see the value in this project, it seems way way overpriced.


At $30-35, I'd have backed it in an instant. I'd have no problem paying $40 retail for it. But I'm not seeing $55 worth of game here.
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EitherOrlok wrote:
Topdecker577 wrote:
I don't see the value in this project, it seems way way overpriced.


At $30-35, I'd have backed it in an instant. I'd have no problem paying $40 retail for it. But I'm not seeing $55 worth of game here.


Same here. I was very tempted, but then to see I'd have to pay pretty much the cost of the base game for the expansion? That's a bit out there.

And then add in all the usual caveats about a first time kickstarter, no posted rules, no reviews, yadayada.
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EitherOrlok wrote:
At $30-35, I'd have backed it in an instant. I'd have no problem paying $40 retail for it. But I'm not seeing $55 worth of game here.

Same here. I watched the video, decided 'I want', scanned the pricing tiers for a ~$30 price point and saw it was $55 -- I think I'll wait for reviews once it's published. I seem to have a psychological barrier when a game hits $50...
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Carmen Cerra
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Did I miss something?
The game is $30.
Or did the second pledge level get added just recently maybe?

And yes, all those "All Gones" turned me off at first, but I'm still keeping an eye on this one.
 
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The Carmen wrote:

The game is $30.

Yes, but the expansion is almost the same ($25). You can check the numbers for the different pledge levels. Game + Expansion is by far the most popular. I'm really unsure at the moment. Either the game might not be as good as I'm hoping it is (there is still no rulebook). Or it will be a great succes and in that case I'm sure if will be available at retail for a cheaper price.

But I really want it...I've been bugging Anthony with questions for while now
 
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The Carmen wrote:
Did I miss something?
The game is $30.
Or did the second pledge level get added just recently maybe?

And yes, all those "All Gones" turned me off at first, but I'm still keeping an eye on this one.


Yes is $30. But at that level you don't get any stretch goals either.

On the plus side, the game will still fit in your pocket :-)
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Dnasearchr wrote:
The Carmen wrote:
Did I miss something?
The game is $30.
Or did the second pledge level get added just recently maybe?

And yes, all those "All Gones" turned me off at first, but I'm still keeping an eye on this one.


Yes is $30. But at that level you don't get any stretch goals either.

On the plus side, the game will still fit in your pocket :-)


I'm definitely considering myself a "target gamer," and I was essentially turned off by what looked like an anemic base product. It really looked like a single product split into a "core" and "expansion." At $55, it seemed to expensive for what it was, and at $30 the core wasn't enough.

Looks nifty though. Just not $55 nifty.
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Manuel Ingeland
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Have you guys already voted for a PnP option?

If not: Too bad the campaign doesn't offer a pnp option. EDIT: PNP POLL! VOTE NOW!

 
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MOTHDevil wrote:
Dnasearchr wrote:
The Carmen wrote:
Did I miss something?
The game is $30.
Or did the second pledge level get added just recently maybe?

And yes, all those "All Gones" turned me off at first, but I'm still keeping an eye on this one.


Yes is $30. But at that level you don't get any stretch goals either.

On the plus side, the game will still fit in your pocket :-)


I'm definitely considering myself a "target gamer," and I was essentially turned off by what looked like an anemic base product. It really looked like a single product split into a "core" and "expansion." At $55, it seemed to expensive for what it was, and at $30 the core wasn't enough.

Looks nifty though. Just not $55 nifty.


It's comments like these that are killing independent game companies trying to start out. They just can't produce a produce as cheaply as FFG or other big name game companies. That's too bad
 
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Dnasearchr wrote:
MOTHDevil wrote:
Dnasearchr wrote:
The Carmen wrote:
Did I miss something?
The game is $30.
Or did the second pledge level get added just recently maybe?

And yes, all those "All Gones" turned me off at first, but I'm still keeping an eye on this one.


Yes is $30. But at that level you don't get any stretch goals either.

On the plus side, the game will still fit in your pocket :-)


I'm definitely considering myself a "target gamer," and I was essentially turned off by what looked like an anemic base product. It really looked like a single product split into a "core" and "expansion." At $55, it seemed to expensive for what it was, and at $30 the core wasn't enough.

Looks nifty though. Just not $55 nifty.


It's comments like these that are killing independent game companies trying to start out. They just can't produce a produce as cheaply as FFG or other big name game companies. That's too bad


I'm not going to pretend to have their quotes and numbers, but I respectfully disagree. This - based on previous quotes I've gotten for my own games - feels a bit high to me.

We've been conditioned to think of KS as a conventional pre-order system, and forget that KS is (hypothetically, depending on the number of hands in the pie) cutting out two tiers in the traditional publication cycle - The distributor and FLGS (or other retail market).

Yes, I know that many of these games also end up at a distributor and sold through to stores, but they're initially funded and brought to fruition solely (in most cases) on the financial input from backers alone.

The idea that we effectively skip two whole tiers in the market cycle and go directly from manufacturing to consumer should be implying a corresponding reduction in cost... but almost uniformly it doesn't.

So when I see a $55 game that realistically isn't worth $55 of materials, distribution, and front end sales, my knee-jerk reaction isn't that it's "killing an independent company" to withhold a pledge, so much as it's an opportunistic advantage on the part of the fledgling publisher (albeit sometimes a smart one). I don't fault this specific campaign for that - like I said the game looks great - But I have limited $$$ to spend and the price-tag seems high. So I withhold.

I have similar feelings about established companies using the KS pre-order system in the same way, and charging what effectively amounts to MSRP or similar.

I don't think scrutinizing price in any way is killing independent companies - in fact, I think it's (hopefully) forcing new publishers to consider their product and campaigns more carefully.



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MOTHDevil wrote:
The idea that we effectively skip two whole tiers in the market cycle and go directly from manufacturing to consumer should be implying a corresponding reduction in cost... but almost uniformly it doesn't.

So when I see a $55 game that realistically isn't worth $55 of materials, distribution, and front end sales, my knee-jerk reaction isn't that it's "killing an independent company" to withhold a pledge, so much as it's an opportunistic advantage on the part of the fledgling publisher (albeit sometimes a smart one). I don't fault this specific campaign for that - like I said the game looks great - But I have limited $$$ to spend and the price-tag seems high. So I withhold.

I have similar feelings about established companies using the KS pre-order system in the same way, and charging what effectively amounts to MSRP or similar.


This is the number one reason I choose not to back certain games that I think are good on Kickstarter.
I tend to back games on Kickstarter for exclusives, however I still will back them under two conditions: 1) the game looks like a very good game, 2) the price-point seems like a good deal.
 
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Topdecker577 wrote:

This is the number one reason I choose not to back certain games that I think are good on Kickstarter.
I tend to back games on Kickstarter for exclusives, however I still will back them under two conditions: 1) the game looks like a very good game, 2) the price-point seems like a good deal.


The price point is most definitely on the rise for most of the games on KS right now. A good number of them now are just over the roof. I won't name names, but a quick glance and review will reveal them. The risk is more and more on the pledger than the campaigner. It is making the decision to back them all the more easier if not frustrating.

-Ski
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When I look at a kickstarter project, I check price, content, quality and delivery time. If they balance each other out (depending on the project), I will back it. What I don't like is uncertainty. Games that don't have art, rulebooks or a possible customs charge make me hesitate. With Pocket Odyssey there are still two weeks left to fill those gaps. Then I can make an informed decision if I want to keep backing or not.
 
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The early bird pricing is annoying. Not getting stretch goals with the base game is annoying. The price is high compared to other "microgames."

I've been disappointed with many of the boardgames I've backed, which is a hard hit to take after spending $50-150 on them.

Lately I've only been doing the $5 microgames and RPGs, which I feel are run better and it's more clear what you're getting. They're simple: "we wanna fund this, here are two options, here are some add-ons you can buy and some stretch goals. Go for it or don't."

All this to say, I was really close to backing this because I love the idea, but the price point and the other things mentioned push me over to "wait and see when it comes out."
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crunk_posby wrote:
The price is high compared to other "microgames."

I agree with most things you said and sometimes I'm still not sure about my pledge. I agree the price is relative high. I just want to comment on this bit. It's not a microgame. It's a micro RPG, meaning it is a streamlined version with few rules and no prep time. It's also a pocket version, meaning the base game fits in your pocket.

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the_vinman wrote:
crunk_posby wrote:
The price is high compared to other "microgames."

I agree with most things you said and sometimes I'm still not sure about my pledge. I agree the price is relative high. I just want to comment on this bit. It's not a microgame. It's a micro RPG, meaning it is a streamlined version with few rules and no prep time. It's also a pocket version, meaning the base game fits in your pocket.



I don't think it will fit in your pocket with the expansion. :-)
 
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