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Subject: Minefield and Defensive Fire rss

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Jamie Shanks
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Here's a question about sequencing that has come up in the opening turn of Scenario 10, Hitdorf on the Rhine, via VSQL...

A US 8-4-7 paratrooper squad and leader move into a road hex, have a Defensive Fire track placed upon them, and subsequently enter a building hex which turns out to contain mines. The stack has MF remaining.

The minefield attack takes place immediately during movement (55.2). Assuming they survive, in the following DF Phase the stack will be returned to the road hex with the DF track and fired upon. If it breaks or is KIA'd, discontinuing its movement, the minefield hex has still been revealed (and other effects of the rather unlucky stack's potential post-minefield movement will still stand as well).

Is there an alternate or better way to handle this sequence? (And no "Switch to ASL" wisecracks!)

Thanks -
Jamie
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craig grinnell
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easiest fix is to ignore 55.2.

Dont deal with the minefield until AFTER defensive fire is resolved. Then simply treat it as though it were in a "tracked" hex.

Violates the rules a bit, but it does solve the issue of "recon by 'whoops, my bad'"

And being a rule breaker, you may need to agree on that before the game, even though you might not think to agree to such an unexpected rule issue before you hit it.
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T. Dauphin
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That's a tricky one. Going to remember this for future reference.
Would there be problems if you allowed the unit to continue its movement to the end, without disclosing the mines? Put a tracking counter on every hex it passes through, and when it comes time to do DF, start at the beginning and work your way through it hex by hex.
You may have to allow him to change his move if he's hit by the mines, as this would have been possible under the existing rules--and by extension, allow you to add/change your defensive fire if the unit takes a different route.

In games with land mines, I'm thinking I'll want to refer to this example to suggest that this be the way we treat all movement, just in case this conflict does arise.

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Monty Jasper
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Jamie,

The Squad Leader Tournament rules conventions says:

"(42D) Normally infantry can be returned to a point in its movement path for defensive fire. However, if one of the units is allowed to progress to hexes to dicover mines or HIP units, the defender must conduct Defensive Fire prior to resoving the minefield attack. This does not prohibit additional defensive fire in the minefield or later hexes moved into."

Monty
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Jamie Shanks
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Thanks very much for sharing your thoughts on this, guys. I've been mulling this problem over on and off during the past week.

Things are complicated somewhat by the fact that we are playing by email over VSQL. I was using single squads to probe a clear path through the mined hexes for other units to subsequently follow later in the same Movement Phase logfile. This tactic requires individual mine attacks to occur as per 55.2, with the logfile stopped after the attack and returned to me to continue from that point, but the mechanics of the DF Phase don't seem to mesh well with this.

Regarding the squad in the situation I described, my opponent has graciously declined to conduct DF on it in a hex prior to its discovery of the mine hex it entered.

Following the suggestions in the discussion above, maybe the best fix from a PBEM perspective is to treat mine attacks just like other DF, except units in revealed mine hexes remain in the mined hex regardless of result, and when all DF is complete the moving player has the option of exiting the mined hex (triggering another mine attack) or staying put.

Jamie
 
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