Daniel
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Just started playing this game. Have not opened the level 1 adventure pack yet. I have a question.

Page 10 "Encountering a card section" first paragraph states, "When you encounter a card, you-and only you-can go through the following steps. No one else can perform these steps for you, though other players might be able to play cards to help you deal with the encounter's challenges"

Page 22 "No one else can take tour turn for" section "If Amiri encounters a battered chest, Lini cannot use Thieves' tools against it. … If Ezren defeats a henchman at the Sandpoint Cathedral, Seelah can't discard a blessing to close at the location."

This is all very confusing. I did not find any help on the FAQ. My question is this. How/When can a play help the active player by playing cards from his hand. Do they need to be at the same location? Are there only special cards that allow this (presumably one that we have not seen in the base cards)

Thanks for your help.
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Andrew Warner
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Welcome to PACG!

There are lots of ways to help other characters. Blessings are the simplest. They add a die (or 2) to a check. You can do that for any character (yourself or someone else) regardless of location (yours or another) as long as someone is making a check. Some cards limit you to helping characters at your location (which still includes yourself). Potion of Glibness for instance only helps a character at your location. (But you are at your location, so you can play it for yourself).

What you can't do is succeed at defeating or acquiring something for someone else or take their encounter for them. But you can help them to do so.

There is a specific sequence for checks. And during the "Play cards and use powers that effect the check" step, anyone can play a card that the situation permits being played The powers of the cards will tell you if you can play it. If there isn't a limit on the card, then you can play it as long as it applies to the situation.

Check the "Cards Do What They Say" and Cards Don't Do What They Don't Say" section.

There is an updated rulebook. Make sure you grab it.
http://paizo.com/download/pathfinder/PZO6000-Rulebook.zip

You might find this helpful as well.
http://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/101370/a-guide-for-new-pla...

Good luck on your adventure.
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Craig S.
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Basically, don't allow preconceptions to impose restrictions on the cards that the cards do not impose on themselves. "A check" means any kind of check, made by anyone, at any location. A card that can only be played on "Your combat check" is an example of a very restrictive card, as it restricts who's check it may affect (only your own) and what type of check (a combat check) it must be.

Cards that don't apply to checks or other steps of an encounter can be played anytime, except during an encounter, unless otherwise stated on the card. So you can cast cure spells any time outside of an encounter...but only on a character at your location (which includes you), as stated on the card. This applies to all types of cards, not just spells.

Another thing: cards that affect a check made with a certain skill can affect any check that uses that skill's die as the base die. For example, Ezren rolls his intelligence die for his arcane checks, so cards that affect intelligence checks can be used to affect an arcane check made by Ezren. Another way to say this is that, because Ezren's arcane skill uses his intelligence die, all of his arcane checks are also intelligence checks. It doesn't work in reverse. Cards that affect only arcane checks can not be used on his pure intelligence checks.
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The cards that are the exception to the rules above as mentioned by csouth and Hawkmoon are the ones the OP is having difficulty with.

Namly, the cards that say "Defeat a barrier," etc.

To the OP, that clarification in the rules is there because those cards do say 'a' so it makes it appear that you can defeat 'a barrier' that someone else is fighting. And that's not the case.

It's implied that "You" defeat a barrier. Since "You" aren't encountering a barrier in that instance, "You" cannot defeat it.

You can only 'defeat' a card you, yourself, are dealing with, unless an effect specifically says that you can defeat a card that someone else is dealing with.

If it's something related to encountering a card, such as evading, outright defeating, etc, then only the person that is encountering the card can do so, unless the effect in question says it specifically can work on another character encountering the card.

After defeating a Henchman "You" may attempt to close the location. So only the person who encountered the henchman that was then defeated may attempt to close the location, nobody else.

It may sound weird and confusing to start, but once you figure it out, it's not something that requires a lot of thought to remember.

If something says "add __ to a check," then it can be played on any check, even one that isn't being made by the person playing the card.

If something says "add __ to your check," then it can only be played by you on yourself when you are making a check.

If something says "Defeat a barrier," then it means you can defeat a barrier that you, yourself, are encountering. If you, yourself, are not encountering a barrier, than you cannot defeat the barrier.

If something says "Evade a monster," then it means You can evade a monster that you, yourself, are encountering. If you, yourself, are not encountering a monster, then you cannot evade the monster.
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Craig S.
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Yes, that is important. You can never play a card, regardless of what the meta rule that "cards do what they say" may suggest, that defeats a bane, acquires a boon, evades an encounter, or succeeds at a check for someone else.

Note that some cards allow you to choose a character to do one of those things...and that's OK, because what YOU are doing is choosing a character, not resolving the encounter for them; although the end result is usually the same.
 
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Joseph Cochran
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csouth154 wrote:
Yes, that is important. You can never play a card, regardless of what the meta rule that "cards do what they say" may suggest, that defeats a bane, acquires a boon, evades an encounter, or succeeds at a check for someone else.


...which is why the meta rule that "cards do what they say" has and always will need clarification...

It doesn't diminish the game, but it's just not as useful a maxim as one might hope.
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Craig S.
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jsciv wrote:
csouth154 wrote:
Yes, that is important. You can never play a card, regardless of what the meta rule that "cards do what they say" may suggest, that defeats a bane, acquires a boon, evades an encounter, or succeeds at a check for someone else.


...which is why the meta rule that "cards do what they say" has and always will need clarification...

It doesn't diminish the game, but it's just not as useful a maxim as one might hope.


Yeah. It's unfortunate, but I think it is something we will not have to worry about in future adventure paths. I'm sure they will be VERY careful to make sure that the wording on all such cards will leave no room for confusion. That meta rule only breaks down with these types of cards...and only the ones that don't use the word "your". When the wording is straightened out, the rule will be as helpful and "meta" as it is meant to be.
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Lars Enden
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jsciv wrote:
...which is why the meta rule that "cards do what they say" has and always will need clarification...


Agreed. That little gem probably caused more problems than it solved. It basically amounted to, "Cards do what they say, unless they do something else."
 
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Mitch Renwick
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I just started walking through PACG for the first time tonight myself, and immediately encountered a similar issue to this.

I'm playing as Harsk and Lini. Lini is at the waterfront and Harsk is at the Wooden Bridge.

Lini encounters a skeleton on her turn and discards a card to add a d10 to her combat check. Can Harsk reveal his starknife to also roll against the skeleton?

If yes, does it matter if it is ranged or not?
 
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snowren24 wrote:
I just started walking through PACG for the first time tonight myself, and immediately encountered a similar issue to this.

I'm playing as Harsk and Lini. Lini is at the waterfront and Harsk is at the Wooden Bridge.

Lini encounters a skeleton on her turn and discards a card to add a d10 to her combat check. Can Harsk reveal his starknife to also roll against the skeleton?

If yes, does it matter if it is ranged or not?


No, Harsk cannot use his starknife in this situation. Notice that the starknife has two powers. The first says, "For your combat check..." Since this power specifically says "your check" you can only use it on your own checks. The second power says "when using another weapon..." This is to be understood as "When YOU ARE using another weapon...", so you cannot use that power either.

But notice that you could use Harsk's power, which allows you to recharge a card to add a d4 to a combat check at another location. THIS will let you help Lini, since she is at another location and is currently attempting a combat check.

By the way, you could choose the starknife as the card to recharge to use Harsk's power, but this would not be PLAYING that card, you are simply using that card to to pay a cost, which is different than playing a card.

I hope this helps.
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Mitch Renwick
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brayle wrote:
snowren24 wrote:
I just started walking through PACG for the first time tonight myself, and immediately encountered a similar issue to this.

I'm playing as Harsk and Lini. Lini is at the waterfront and Harsk is at the Wooden Bridge.

Lini encounters a skeleton on her turn and discards a card to add a d10 to her combat check. Can Harsk reveal his starknife to also roll against the skeleton?

If yes, does it matter if it is ranged or not?


No, Harsk cannot use his starknife in this situation. Notice that the starknife has two powers. The first says, "For your combat check..." Since this power specifically says "your check" you can only use it on your own checks. The second power says "when using another weapon..." This is to be understood as "When YOU ARE using another weapon...", so you cannot use that power either.

But notice that you could use Harsk's power, which allows you to recharge a card to add a d4 to a combat check at another location. THIS will let you help Lini, since she is at another location and is currently attempting a combat check.

By the way, you could choose the starknife as the card to recharge to use Harsk's power, but this would not be PLAYING that card, you are simply using that card to to pay a cost, which is different than playing a card.

I hope this helps.


Thanks, I'm not sure how I missed the "your combat check" part.

So Harsk has an ability to help at other locations, that makes sense with him being ranged and all.

If players are at the same location, can they help out? Is it treated like all players are experiencing the combat check?
 
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Craig S.
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snowren24 wrote:


If players are at the same location...Is it treated like all players are experiencing the combat check?


Nope. Each encounter belongs to only one character. If an encounter requires multiple checks to defeat (two or more separated by the word "then"), the encountering character must attempt at least one of them; it doesn't have to be the first one. Any check the encountering character chooses not to attempt (again, as long as they attempt at least one) may be attempted by any other characters in the same location.
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Andrew Warner
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They can help out, but only with cards that apply to the check.

If Lini is the one making the combat check, then no one else can use a power that says "For your combat check..." because it isn't their combat check, its Lini's. But they can play a blessing. And since blessings say to "a check" it doesn't matter what location anyone is at or whose check it is. As long as it is "a check" it is playable.
If Valeros is at Lini's location, she'd automatically get a d4 due to his power. If Lem was at Lini's location, he could recharge a card to give her a d4. If Ezren had a Fiery Weapon spell he could play it if Lini was using a weapon regardless of location because that card makes no mention of location.

If the card or power doesn't limit the location, then there is no limit to the location. If a card or power applies to a certain kind of check, then it can be played on that certain kind of check.
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csouth154 wrote:
snowren24 wrote:


If players are at the same location...Is it treated like all players are experiencing the combat check?


Nope. Each encounter belongs to only one character. If an encounter requires multiple checks to defeat (two or more separated by the word "then"), the encountering character must attempt at least one of them; it doesn't have to be the first one. Any check the encountering character chooses not to attempt (again, as long as they attempt at least one) may be attempted by any other characters in the same location.
Just a quick preemptive clarification for this.

Bad things that happen when a bane fails to be fully defeated happen to the one that encountered it, unless something says otherwise, even if a different character attempted the other check(s). This also includes "before the encounter" and "after the encounter" effects.

That being said, when a character fails a check against a monster, that character takes damage. This happens even if the character making the check is not the one that initiated the encounter with the bane. This is because taking the damage is part of the check, itself, and not because of the encounter directly.
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PierreLuc PierreLuc
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So basically, you can almost use only blessing cards to help an other in his check...?
 
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Andrew Warner
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PierreLuc wrote:
So basically, you can almost use only blessing cards to help an other in his check...?


No, there are lots of cards that can help others, as long as the situation is applicable. Some examples:

Weapons
Shortbow (and I think every type of bow) can add 1d4 to a combat check at another location.
Allying Dart can add 1d4+1 to a combat check by another character at your location.

Spells
Aid adds 1d6 to a check, so any location, any character.
Find Traps adds 2 dice to a check to defeat a barrier, any location, any character.
Fiery Weapon adds 1d4 to any combat check using a weapon, any location any character.
Glibness adds 3 to Charisma checks by any character, any location.
Strength does the same for Strength. Speed does the same for Dexterity.
Toxic Cloud, Incendiary Cloud, and Blizzard add to combat checks by every character at every location.
Guidance adds 1 to any check by any character at any location.
Swipe decreased the difficulty of a combat check by 3 by any character at any location.

Items
Blast Stone adds 1d4 to a combat check by any character at your location.
Magic Spyglass adds to a perception check by any character at any location.
All the potions work on a character at your location.
Tome of Knowledge adds 1d6 to a Knowledge check by any character at any location.

Allies
Grizzled Mercenary adds 1d6 to a combat check by any character at your location.
Jakardros Sovark adds 1d4 to a combat check by another character at any location.
Shalelu Andosana adds 1d4 to a Ranged combat by any character at any location.
Sheriff Hemlock adds 1d6 to a combat check by any character at any location.

But blessings as a type can always help another character. Not every weapon, or item or spell or ally can help another character, but blessings always can.

There are also lots of cards that, while they don't help others with their checks they can help others quite a bit:

Augury, Scrying, Sanctuary, Restoration, Brodert Quink, Spyglass, Cure, and Staff of Minor healing are all examples.

There are lots of character powers that help too.

Lem 1d4 to any check by another character at your location.
Harks 1d4 to a combat check at another location.
Valeros 1d4 to a combat check at your location.

If you like helping others, play Lem and get some of the "support" spells and allies. You'll be a helping machine.
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PierreLuc PierreLuc
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Thank you
 
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