Devin
Canada
Kitchener
Ontario
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
I noticed that the Count, King & Robber set was available through z-man at my local store and grabbed it as this was never available as a set in english before. I have never played with River II before and I am confused about the rules.

The manual states:
"Place the source, the fork and the mouth (with the volcano) to the side and shuffle the 9 remaining tiles. The source is placed in the middle of the table. The youngest player then places the fork. In clockwise order, the players take turns drawing from the pile of River tiles and place them so that they add to one of the two rivers. Once the pile of shuffled River tiles is exhausted, the mouth is placed to close the remaining incomplete river."

This says to me that the source is placed automatically and nobody actually 'plays' it. Then the first player takes the fork and plays it like normal, but their only option is to attach it to the first river piece and then lay a worker on it if they want. In the picture on the back of the box and on pictures online I have seen the fork placed further down the river, not attached to the source. Is this just a mistake or did they change the rules, or am I missing something?

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Yours Truly,
United States
Raleigh
North Carolina
flag msg tools
badge
There must have been a moment at the beginning, where we could have said no. Somehow we missed it. Well, we'll know better next time.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The River is a very flexible expansion and really you should play it however is more fun for you. I'm not sure why they have the Fork as the 2nd tile. I always mix the Fork up with the other river tiles, as you get more variable shapes that way. It's also fun to mix up River I and River II, putting the 2 sources back-to-back and ending up with 2 rivers of variable lengths.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John Goodhand
United States
GSP Exit #20 (Seaville)
New Jersey
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb

Since the original Carcassonne rules stated that "the youngest player goes first," I would assume that this policy continues into the River-II expansion and therefore this 'youngest player' would naturally have the option to place one of his/her followers (meeple) onto that tile with the fork in the river. However, the only available occupation on that tile is a Farmer in one of the three green locations. A smart player will obviously take advantage of river's source to control the farmland on both sides of the river. Better clarification of the rules with suggestions for alternate methods is something that has always been lacking in Carcassonne and it's 20+ expansions and multiple spinoffs.

Carcassonne is supposed to be a "friendly," family oriented game. However, since we seldom play with children any more and a few of our older friends complained about never having the chance to place the First tile and First follower as a strategic farmer, we disregard the "youngest goes first" rule and roll a die to determine turn order. Also just for fun, we sometimes put the River Fork tile face down with the other river tiles and allow it to turn up randomly. By the way: we always combine both River-I and River-II expansions for a 22 tile long river that is the prequel to some very serious gaming sessions. It makes for some interesting variations. I believe this was suggested on another web site years ago and I liked the idea. We seldom use the Dragon mechanic because we feel it is too time consuming and too much of an interruption to game's flow. therefore we don't pay any attention to the volcanoes and simply use them for whatever other features appear on them.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John Goodhand
United States
GSP Exit #20 (Seaville)
New Jersey
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
JohnnyDollar wrote:

The River is a very flexible expansion and really you should play it however is more fun for you. I'm not sure why they have the Fork as the 2nd tile. I always mix the Fork up with the other river tiles, as you get more variable shapes that way. It's also fun to mix up River I and River II, putting the 2 sources back-to-back and ending up with 2 rivers of variable lengths.

*AMAZING* . . . what a GREAT IDEA! I've played Carcassonne a lot ever since it arrived in America, but I never thought of having two independent rivers growing simultaneously tile-by-tile. Starting with the river in this fashion, the River Fork tile could end up on either of the river segments. Very interesting concept.

It's a pet-peeve of mine after having studied some Geology and Geography during my careers, to see a river with ONE SOURCE and ending in TWO LAKES. That is an extremely rare occurrence. Sometimes I wish that Klaus-Jurgen Wrede had done his homework and released the River-II expansion as two river sources (natural springs) that join at an intersection (the fork) and end in one lake. Oh well, C'est la vie. :what:
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Yours Truly,
United States
Raleigh
North Carolina
flag msg tools
badge
There must have been a moment at the beginning, where we could have said no. Somehow we missed it. Well, we'll know better next time.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Johngee wrote:

A smart player will obviously take advantage of river's source to control the farmland on both sides of the river.


Some folks play with the source tile not giving control to both sides of the river. Basically that mountain on the source tile that extends to the corner would divide that farmland (at least on that tile). Especially since the main purpose of the river was to minimize megafarms. I enjoy it either way, but, definitely something to agree on as a group at the beginning of the game.

(See lower left tile for the "source" tile)
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Yours Truly,
United States
Raleigh
North Carolina
flag msg tools
badge
There must have been a moment at the beginning, where we could have said no. Somehow we missed it. Well, we'll know better next time.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Johngee wrote:
JohnnyDollar wrote:

The River is a very flexible expansion and really you should play it however is more fun for you. I'm not sure why they have the Fork as the 2nd tile. I always mix the Fork up with the other river tiles, as you get more variable shapes that way. It's also fun to mix up River I and River II, putting the 2 sources back-to-back and ending up with 2 rivers of variable lengths.

*AMAZING* . . . what a GREAT IDEA! I've played Carcassonne a lot ever since it arrived in America, but I never thought of having two independent rivers growing simultaneously tile-by-tile. Starting with the river in this fashion, the River Fork tile could end up on either of the river segments. Very interesting concept.

It's a pet-peeve of mine after having studied some Geology and Geography during my careers, to see a river with ONE SOURCE and ending in TWO LAKES. That is an extremely rare occurrence. Sometimes I wish that Klaus-Jurgen Wrede had done his homework and released the River-II expansion as two river sources (natural springs) that join at an intersection (the fork) and end in one lake. Oh well, C'est la vie.


Yeah I always enjoy the 2-river start and seeing how they will end up. What you do is start with the 2 sources back-to-back, then put everything else in the bag except ONE lake. That way you'll have no idea how long everything else will be, where the fork will be, etc, but, you've gotta keep the one lake tile out to guarantee the final growing river will be terminated properly.

I've been playing this variant so long I don't remember where I learned it, I'm sure on the Geek somewhere. cool
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John Goodhand
United States
GSP Exit #20 (Seaville)
New Jersey
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
JohnnyDollar wrote:

Some folks play with the source tile not giving control to both sides of the river. Basically that mountain on the source tile that extends to the corner would divide that farmland (at least on that tile). Especially since the main purpose of the river was to minimize megafarms. I enjoy it either way, but, definitely something to agree on as a group at the beginning of the game.

There was also a River Source tile in the Gamer Magazine expansion (that I still have somewhere) that had a picture of a red roofed house (not an Inn) at the source and a Road leading away from it in the opposite direction that the river is flowing. This is the only tile that I've used to definitely divide the farms on either side of the river. My entire group would protest if I tried to convince them now that the mountain on the river source tile prevents farms from wrapping around. But I totally agree that in order to keep it a *FUN* game, THE GROUP has to decide which mechanics are going to be utilized. We must have a dozen different House Rules that govern how we apply certain aspects of each expansion... i.e. a Yes or No vote is taken regarding: Commodities, Towers, Catapults, Sieges, Cult Shrines, the Count, the Dragon, Princesses, Portals, Mayors, Wagons, Abbeys, Markets, Bridges, etc.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tim Wright
United Kingdom
Southampton
flag msg tools
Johngee wrote:
It's a pet-peeve of mine after having studied some Geology and Geography during my careers, to see a river with ONE SOURCE and ending in TWO LAKES. That is an extremely rare occurrence. Sometimes I wish that Klaus-Jurgen Wrede had done his homework and released the River-II expansion as two river sources (natural springs) that join at an intersection (the fork) and end in one lake. Oh well, C'est la vie.

Exactly! That's how we play it: start with a lake and work upstream from there with a fork at some random point and ultimately two sources.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ray Milner
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
Thank you .. I am not alone... That sizeable river ending in a small lake... Sorry, something annoys the nerd in me.
So I made 'The delta'.. river mouth.. a single piece, 3 tiles wide.. This is placed at one edge of the table, then we work up stream laying the source last.
To avoid conflict, we always use the source with a road.. clearly divides.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John Goodhand
United States
GSP Exit #20 (Seaville)
New Jersey
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
BRAVO! Making your own "DELTA" for the Carcassonne River is a GREAT IDEA. I never did use the 'blank tiles' that came with the Creativity Expansion, because I couldn't think of anything that would be readily acceptable to my group or worth the time and effort into drawing the feature. Your "Delta" reminds me of the River Expansion for Settlers of Catan : click here
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Yours Truly,
United States
Raleigh
North Carolina
flag msg tools
badge
There must have been a moment at the beginning, where we could have said no. Somehow we missed it. Well, we'll know better next time.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
RayM wrote:
Thank you .. I am not alone... That sizeable river ending in a small lake... Sorry, something annoys the nerd in me.
So I made 'The delta'.. river mouth.. a single piece, 3 tiles wide.. This is placed at one edge of the table, then we work up stream laying the source last.
To avoid conflict, we always use the source with a road.. clearly divides.


Can you post a pic?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike Jones
United States
Gainesville
Florida
flag msg tools
Yeah it's here! Really it's right here.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Johngee wrote:
JohnnyDollar wrote:

Some folks play with the source tile not giving control to both sides of the river. Basically that mountain on the source tile that extends to the corner would divide that farmland (at least on that tile). Especially since the main purpose of the river was to minimize megafarms. I enjoy it either way, but, definitely something to agree on as a group at the beginning of the game.

There was also a River Source tile in the Gamer Magazine expansion (that I still have somewhere) that had a picture of a red roofed house (not an Inn) at the source and a Road leading away from it in the opposite direction that the river is flowing. This is the only tile that I've used to definitely divide the farms on either side of the river. My entire group would protest if I tried to convince them now that the mountain on the river source tile prevents farms from wrapping around. But I totally agree that in order to keep it a *FUN* game, THE GROUP has to decide which mechanics are going to be utilized. We must have a dozen different House Rules that govern how we apply certain aspects of each expansion... i.e. a Yes or No vote is taken regarding: Commodities, Towers, Catapults, Sieges, Cult Shrines, the Count, the Dragon, Princesses, Portals, Mayors, Wagons, Abbeys, Markets, Bridges, etc.


I was always taught that the scorce tile 'breaks' up the farm.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.