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Subject: isn't the Guard overpowered (especially in 2p)? rss

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Zakimos Kleidos
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I've always found the lack of punishment for wrong guesses a little puzzling, but in 2P it feels even more noticeable.

As you already know 5 cards that your opponent can't possibly hold (the 2 in your hand and the 3 discarded face up at the beginning) it's much, much easier to guess right, meaning that the round can end in a matter of seconds.
Adding some small malus for wrong guesses would make playing a Guard in 2P less of a sure-win move.
 
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Chris
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Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars, where you will be forced to drift aimlessly farther into the vast, empty abyss of space until a lack of food, water and oxygen causes you to succumb to Death's cold embrace.
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No, not at all. You start with 11 unknown cards and so guessing priest / baron / handmaid / prince you have by default a 2/11 chance of winning. 1/11 from king, countess, princess. That's pretty low odds for a stab in the dark. Obviously once you find more out, it's more useful but that's a wider picture.
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Rafal Areinu
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Uh, oh. I always placed those 3 cards face down in 2p game. We were doing it wrong and never noticed!
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Chris
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Areinu wrote:
Uh, oh. I always placed those 3 cards face down in 2p game. We were doing it wrong and never noticed!
I find that a little odd, it just makes you get on with the game a bit faster. I don't see a benefit in doing so, outside of removing the earlier turns which would have even less known about them.
 
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Zakimos Kleidos
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TheRocketSurgeon wrote:
No, not at all. You start with 11 unknown cards and so guessing priest / baron / handmaid / prince you have by default a 2/11 chance of winning. 1/11 from king, countess, princess. That's pretty low odds for a stab in the dark. Obviously once you find more out, it's more useful but that's a wider picture.


That's low but not as low as I'd expect for a winning move (in 2P) that you can make even in the first turn. Adding a small penalty would have made more sense, reducing the chance of winning at the first single turn (which can make the game seem much worse than it is when you show it at new players).

The Baron, for instance, has a similar power but with risks and benefits.
 
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Mark L
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The Baron has a much higher chance of success: even if the card you're comparing is only a Handmaid there are 8 lower cards (not including the Baron you've just played) and only 5 higher.

And the Guard isn't a "winning move" unless it's the final round of the game. It can win you a round, sure, but the same is equally true for your opponent.

I've noticed generally that the higher a card's value is, the worse its ability is. The Princess disadvantages you as it forces you to play your other card. The Countess gives you no advantage and can give your oppononets information about your hand. The King's ability is only rarely useful (there are only 2 cards you can gain that are higher than the King). And so on.

Given that, it makes sense that the Guard has the most powerful ability. Having to pay some penalty for guessing incorrectly would make it really annoying IMO, especially since there are so many that you're practically bound to play one or two in each round.

I think the problem with 2-player is just that Love Letter doesn't work that well 2-player. That isn't the fault of the Guard.
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Kris Rhodes
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TheRocketSurgeon wrote:
Areinu wrote:
Uh, oh. I always placed those 3 cards face down in 2p game. We were doing it wrong and never noticed!
I find that a little odd, it just makes you get on with the game a bit faster. I don't see a benefit in doing so, outside of removing the earlier turns which would have even less known about them.


Huh? It states in the rules that in 2p, you remove three cards from the deck. The person you're replying to is asking whether the cards are supposed to be revealed or not.

I thought not, but I could easily be wrong, I haven't actually played the game yet.
 
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Mark L
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pricero1 wrote:
The whole point is that the 3 cards are not revealed.


Yes, they are. The one card that's removed in all games regardless of player count is not revealed, but page 9 of the rulebook says:
Quote:
If you are playing a two-player game, take three more cards from the top of the deck and place them to the side, face up. They will not be used during this round.

(emphasis mine)
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Also, remember that you can't name the Guard itself. So the most likely card for your opponent to have is also the one that will never let you call them out on.
 
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This Mango Is Off!
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That's going to happen, I don't think.
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xipuloxx wrote:

Quote:
If you are playing a two-player game, take three more cards from the top of the deck and place them to the side, face up. They will not be used during this round.

(emphasis mine)


D'oh! I am an idiot - I hadn't noticed that. Thanks, xipuloxx.
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