United States
SoCal
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
No real gameplay bearing, more so out of sheer curiosity and what others have seen. If so, please provide details like sets used, characters in play, # of players, etc. AFAIK, going through all 22 Mcards is possible in practice given as many of these factors as possible...

Earth's 10 distance.

if you get Ccards like Insubordinate Crew 12GP is failed, and each player that doesn't already have one draws an Mcard to get more "bang for the buck", so up to 7 here.

Some of them that dole out 2 at once (current player plus another, or admiral + president).

Then add a disproportionate amount of Personal Vices and Exploit Weaknesses, which could be brought on by A Better Machine.

Mutr. in play since the beginning to add 3 Mcards (one to start off, 2 more after his 2nd turn).

Perhaps a player or 2 purposely discarding a 0 to draw an Mcard as a gamble.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ossian Grr aka "Josh"
United States
Chelmsford
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
GRRRRR!!!
badge
GRRRRRRRRR!!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Don't forget Tom Zarek.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pasi Ojala
Finland
Tampere
flag msg tools
Get the Imperial Assault Campaign module for Vassal from http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/Module:Star_Wars:_Imperial_Assault
badge
The next Total Solar Eclipse holiday in 2024 in USA? See you there!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
In our first Pegasus+Exodus(CFB)+Daybreak game to Earth (5-player game with CL and Mutineer), with me being nuZarek Mutineer from the beginning, I cycled through the Mutiny deck once and a bit (probably more than twice), plenty of them also being discarded due to characters visiting or staying in the brig, trying to fish for the good ones.

My impression is that we also actually run out of the Mutiny deck due to the fishing and needed to shuffle the discard to make a new one, but unfortunately don't have a session report to verify, just this much.


Edit: We have never seen that many mutiny cards since, only a couple at minimum and maybe around 8 at maximum, but we have played a lot of 4-player games with Cylon Leader (and they have only occasionally wanted to deal out Mutiny cards to themselves or others due to Motives), and none really hit the same treachery-generating destiny automata that the first Daybreak game. (Restore Order played strategically has helped in at least one game.)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kwijiboe
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Base. GAME.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I usually see only a handful of mutiny cards hit the discard pile. Usually one to two are discarded because they were used, a few more to discard down to the 1 (or 2) Mutiny card hand limit, and a few dumped through use of the Press Room. (Note: Press room is great for helping the Mutineer discard down to 1 Mutiny card when the mutineer has 2 mutiny cards already).

Overall, I see no more than 6 or 7 Mutiny cards discarded. Insubordinate crew did go off in one game however.. I forget what happened that game though.

NuZarek will go through the entire Mutiny Deck once 10 mutiny cards are passed out. (20 drawn mutiny cards, 10 to players and 10 to the bottom of the deck. Zarek starts game drawing 2, choosing 1). However, I wouldn't consider Zareks ability as "going through" the Mutiny Deck because the cards are not discarded.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joseph Cochran
United States
Costa Mesa
California
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmb
We had one game where we failed an early Crisis that gave everyone a Mutiny, and then from there it just snowballed. With Mutineer in the game we've also had a snowball effect with Mutiny. There are many games where a couple of them come out, but they can really hammer you if they get going, and in both of the games I referenced above (one of them with New Zarek to burn the deck faster) there were reshuffles.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
SoCal
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Kwijiboe wrote:
However, I wouldn't consider Zareks ability as "going through" the Mutiny Deck because the cards are not discarded.
That was also my concern with NuZarek. Unless people are either "marking" or otherwise taking a mental note of when the repeat cards start occurring (probably too hard to track visually, so nuZarek will likely be the one to note when an Mcard comes around again), there's no way to be for certain, and sort of doesn't really count.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kwijiboe
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Base. GAME.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
jsciv wrote:
We had one game where we failed an early Crisis that gave everyone a Mutiny, and then from there it just snowballed. With Mutineer in the game we've also had a snowball effect with Mutiny. There are many games where a couple of them come out, but they can really hammer you if they get going, and in both of the games I referenced above (one of them with New Zarek to burn the deck faster) there were reshuffles.


Reshuffles only happen when the entire deck has been discarded. That means that every mutiny card was either used or discarded individually by players.

Was it really that bad? Lol. Or did NuZarek discard rather than place the card at the bottom of the deck?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joseph Cochran
United States
Costa Mesa
California
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmb
Kwijiboe wrote:
jsciv wrote:
We had one game where we failed an early Crisis that gave everyone a Mutiny, and then from there it just snowballed. With Mutineer in the game we've also had a snowball effect with Mutiny. There are many games where a couple of them come out, but they can really hammer you if they get going, and in both of the games I referenced above (one of them with New Zarek to burn the deck faster) there were reshuffles.


Reshuffles only happen when the entire deck has been discarded. That means that every mutiny card was either used or discarded individually by players.

Was it really that bad? Lol. Or did NuZarek discard rather than place the card at the bottom of the deck?


You're right, my memory on what New Zarek did was faulty. We played it right. Yes, we really did burn through that many. When the Treachery deck snowballs itself into Destiny it's a hard cycle to break out of.....
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kwijiboe
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Base. GAME.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
ackmondual wrote:
Kwijiboe wrote:
However, I wouldn't consider Zareks ability as "going through" the Mutiny Deck because the cards are not discarded.
That was also my concern with NuZarek. Unless people are either "marking" or otherwise taking a mental note of when the repeat cards start occurring (probably too hard to track visually, so nuZarek will likely be the one to note when an Mcard comes around again), there's no way to be for certain, and sort of doesn't really count.


Just keep count of how many mutiny cards go out. Every time Mutiny comes out, Zarek must draw 2. There are only 22 Mutiny cards in the game and Zarek starts the game having examined 2.

Once 10 Mutiny cards go out to other players: Zarek will be forced to choose from the cards he buried. If those next few mutiny cards are helpful, that's a sign Zarek is probably a baddie. If they're -2 jump prep track awful, then Zarek is probably a goodie.

However, it's hard to tell since you can't share any specific information with other players. But, you do get to see what others play or discard: this might hint at Zareks loyalty.

Tangent: Ultimately, I think NuZarek is poorly designed. He's either boring to play, or overpowered with the mutineer. His OPG is also a huge gamble because I don't believe it gives Zarek the option to NOT choose a mutiny card to resolve.

I really wanted to see them try to fix base game Zarek. Base game Zarek is pretty great conceptually: he's either stealing the presidency from the sick Roslin or taking the presidency from the double loyalty card drawing Baltar.

Unfortunately, the meta does not favor players who hit up Administration. Ironically enough, players are more suspicious of players that want the presidency rather than players who are currently the president.

jsciv wrote:
When the Treachery deck snowballs itself into Destiny it's a hard cycle to break out of.....


I know you know this already, but thats why there are two Restore Order skill cards. It can be tempting to use them for a skill check since they are valued at 3/4, but I've used it to good effect when I knew for certain that the next 2 skill cards were treachery.

Also, I discovered one group was having a problem with treachery snowballing but I found out the reason this was the case was because they would resolve every skill check ability (even duplicates) in the skill check. This misinterpretation of the rules led to players shuffling in 4 treachery from 2 duplicate "building a better machine" treachery cards.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pieter
Netherlands
Maastricht
flag msg tools
Good intentions are no substitute for a good education.
badge
I take my fun very seriously.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
A while back I posted an image from PBF 399, with all six players brigged. How do you think we got in that mess? We easily went through the Mutiny Deck.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robert Stewart
United Kingdom
Newcastle-upon-Tyne
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Kwijiboe wrote:
Unfortunately, the meta does not favor players who hit up Administration. Ironically enough, players are more suspicious of players that want the presidency rather than players who are currently the president.


More that players are more suspicious of players who want to sink actions into moving the Presidency without good reason than of players who prefer to spend actions improving humanity's position...

In real life, the incumbent often has a popularity advantage...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kwijiboe
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Base. GAME.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Zarek has a great reason to take the presidency from Baltar (more likely to be Cylon), but a not so great reason for taking it from Roslin (Roslin is weak without her President Title).

Ultimately, Zarek is designed to impose some human vs human conflict. However, that doesn't work in this game because it's ultimately a human vs Cylon game. Which is a shame because the best parts of the show was the political infighting between humans.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
SoCal
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Kwijiboe wrote:
Zarek has a great reason to take the presidency from Baltar (more likely to be Cylon), but a not so great reason for taking it from Roslin (Roslin is weak without her President Title).

Ultimately, Zarek is designed to impose some human vs human conflict. However, that doesn't work in this game because it's ultimately a human vs Cylon game. Which is a shame because the best parts of the show was the political infighting between humans.
when I used old Administration as Zarek, part of it was to use that part off his ability, but also Baltar's extra loyalty card. It usually didn't fly with others, but it was fun.

At least with Mutiny more likely to brig people, he 'shines' more with A checks.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.