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7 Wonders» Forums » General

Subject: 7 wonders and noob carnage rss

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Skerasco Veraii
United Kingdom
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Hello! Ive played 7 wonders for a long time, many games etc. I think the game is extremely good, but has anyone noticed this: I think 7 wonders is one of the games in which a poor/inexperienced player can drastically affect the performance of the other players. I dont know many games where this is the case, but i think in this game if one player makes bad decisions, it can actually ruin the fairness entirely for all the other players as the choices are so interlinked. A player cant just bring himself down, he always takes someone with him, he can also accidentally hand the victory to another player through bad play who wouldnt have won otherwise if he had made better decisions....... not such a problem when you have a game with everyone who knows what they're doing.... just a thought....
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Scott Douglass
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Yes. That is my biggest problem with 7 Wonders. It's not as bad with 3, but it can still play a significant role. In particular, I've seen inexperienced players contest military in situations where doing so is incredibly inefficient for them, and it is clear to me that it will just end up hurting both them and their neighbor that already invested in military. There are certainly other forms of it, but I find that one to be the one that I notice the most.
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Stemming Science victories often requires a collaborative effort of sorts, and newbies often do not due any due diligence burying them under their wonders.

Newbies also fail to take the often "must haves", such as Forum and Cannivassary during Age II, and the "slash resources" during Age I.

Sometimes, they tend to take stuff that's not needed, or too much of it, and end up failing to build their wonder to the desired level.



In one group, it seems to work, is to seat everyone such that all the noobs are at one side, while the experienced players are on the other. This is as opposed to alternating newbie, vet, newbie, vet, etc., which seems to cause newbie decisions to have more effect.
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bort
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Sure, it can happen. But it plays so quickly, even beginning players can get a couple of games in, and then they have more idea about what not to pass on.
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Ken Dilloo
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Bothell
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Everything is relative to perception, and your perception is limited.
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The Ginger Ninja
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Puerto Rico might be the poster child for noobs affecting balance. Sitting to the left of a noob is huge. Obviously 7 Wonders has a lot of that too.
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Ben Bateson
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Oi! Hands off...
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The last game I played with a noob: he came second of six with 56 points.

The most experienced player at the table scored 30.

Go figure...
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6element
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Assessing opponent's skills is important part of the game.

In 3-4 player game it is usually possible to mitigate "inexperienced player factor". It is harder to do in 5+ player game and that's one of the reasons I strongly prefer 3-4 player game.

Also, rejecting to block science (and forcing another competent player to block) is valid move.

PS: Speaking of skills, Forum is very far from a "must have" card.
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Nathan Miller
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Minnesota
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Playing with new players is part of any game and Seven Wonders is no exception. All this post does is discourage people from trying Seven Wonders in fear of wrecking the game for others. Also, if you can't adapt your strategy to cope with a play style, even if it is erratic, then you probably aren't as experienced as you think.
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Brandon Irvine
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Massachusetts
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6element wrote:
Assessing opponent's skills is important part of the game.

In 3-4 player game it is usually possible to mitigate "inexperienced player factor". It is harder to do in 5+ player game and that's one of the reasons I strongly prefer 3-4 player game.

Also, rejecting to block science (and forcing another competent player to block) is valid move.

PS: Speaking of skills, Forum is very far from a "must have" card.


I was thinking about this science problem and I was coming to a similar conclusion. For example, if you can block science for a player two players to my left, should you? It really depends; is the player to your left going to block it if you pass it along? Which one of you has more to lose (you or the player to your left)?

I actually kind of enjoy the problem of figuring out what people will do even if they are playing inefficiently and/or counter to their best interests. After all, even competent players can inadvertently play kingmaker.
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Johny D
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I played around 40 games of 7 wonders so far with various groups, but I can 't see any problems regarding inexperienced players. If you consider yourself a pro player, you must lear to adapt and to read your opponents.
 
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