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Caverna: The Cave Farmers» Forums » General

Subject: Complaint to Lookout Games rss

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Ryan Bull
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I recently emailed Lookout Games regarding a faulty donkey meeple in our copy of Caverna. Though this did not detract from what is an otherwise stellar game I expected the quality of the components to be flawless, considering the £70 price tag, and the fact that a lot of games half the price I have bought have superior quality components.

I recently had an issue with some uneven dice in my copy of Quantum, and the response was for them to send us a new pile of 20 dice from France to the UK free of charge.

In contrast to my previous experience the response I got from Lookout Games was rather underwhelming.

thanks for your eMail.
The meeples are first cut into shape, then painted, and then sorted if deformities can be found. All this is done manually. Therefore, there's always a very small margin of error.
We have established the courtesy to always have more meeples in the game than necessary, in case of legless cows or earless donkeys as in your case.
I hope you still enjoy your game!


Even though this is a very minor complaint I will think twice before parting with my money to acquire another of Lookout Games' products. A shame really. How many pence would it have cost them to send out a single replacement meeple?
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Daniel Indru
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I can understand your complaint, but do you actually NEED that replacement donkey?

"We have established the courtesy to always have more meeples in the game than necessary, in case of legless cows or earless donkeys as in your case."
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Fridjof B
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I respectfully disagree with you.
Their answer seems fair enough.
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Katherine Boag
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Lookout Games wrote:

We have established the courtesy to always have more meeples in the game than necessary, in case of legless cows or earless donkeys as in your case.


So they've given you 1+ extra donkeys already, included in the base game, and that isn't good enough for you?
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Chris Smith
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GameplayerOfTitan wrote:
Faulty donkey meeple.


SOUND THE ALARM!
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Ryan Bull
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greetingsfrombergen wrote:
I respectfully disagree with you.
Their answer seems fair enough.


You disagree with me being underwhelmed by my response from the company? OK.

Kactus04 wrote:


So they've given you 1+ extra donkeys already, included in the base game, and that isn't good enough for you?


It just seems like a cop-out response to me. So there's no chance of running out of meeples in a 7 player game?

If I buy a pack of card protectors, let's say, from a company and one of the protectors are split what's stopping them from turning around and saying "well, we preempted your issue so we popped an extra one in every pack".

And it's also the principal of the whole thing. To placate a loyal customer isn't it easier to replace faulty parts rather than argue the toss?
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Ryan Bull
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Smoothsmith wrote:
GameplayerOfTitan wrote:
Faulty donkey meeple.


SOUND THE ALARM!


laugh
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Bjørnar Løseth
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I got a donkey with super short legs in my copy. Adds to the fun! We alway make up stories about this freak of a donkey. Cheer up, man!
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Joe Kundlak
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I too find their response fair. It's not like a card or a board is missing or damaged...

And it certainly does not warrant being anal about future Lookout Games purchases.
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Steve
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GameplayerOfTitan wrote:

If I buy a pack of card protectors, let's say, from a company and one of the protectors are split what's stopping them from turning around and saying "well, we preempted your issue so we popped an extra one in every pack".


If the card protectors were sold as a pack of 50 and they included 51 then yes, I would consider that fair as well.
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Sam Chan
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GameplayerOfTitan wrote:
greetingsfrombergen wrote:
I respectfully disagree with you.
Their answer seems fair enough.


You disagree with me being underwhelmed by my response from the company? OK.

Kactus04 wrote:


So they've given you 1+ extra donkeys already, included in the base game, and that isn't good enough for you?


It just seems like a cop-out response to me. So there's no chance of running out of meeples in a 7 player game?

If I buy a pack of card protectors, let's say, from a company and one of the protectors are split what's stopping them from turning around and saying "well, we preempted your issue so we popped an extra one in every pack".

And it's also the principal of the whole thing. To placate a loyal customer isn't it easier to replace faulty parts rather than argue the toss?




Your card protector example makes no sense. Your issue seems to be that you don't know if the company is lying to you or not. Why not just count the number of card protectors? e.g. you bought a pack of 50, you counted 51 --> they are not lying.

Now...

Have you counted the number of donkeys? In the rulebook, it states that there are 30 grey donkeys.
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Geo
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I had a bad experience with Lookout customer service in the past. My LeHavre countersheets were badly mis-aligned. After a couple of complaints they sent me new countersheets.

They were even worst than the ones i already had!

Their games are expensive so their customer service should be top notch, but it is not. Bad for them because they lose customers...
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Blineyy wrote:
GameplayerOfTitan wrote:
greetingsfrombergen wrote:
I respectfully disagree with you.
Their answer seems fair enough.


You disagree with me being underwhelmed by my response from the company? OK.

Kactus04 wrote:


So they've given you 1+ extra donkeys already, included in the base game, and that isn't good enough for you?


It just seems like a cop-out response to me. So there's no chance of running out of meeples in a 7 player game?

If I buy a pack of card protectors, let's say, from a company and one of the protectors are split what's stopping them from turning around and saying "well, we preempted your issue so we popped an extra one in every pack".

And it's also the principal of the whole thing. To placate a loyal customer isn't it easier to replace faulty parts rather than argue the toss?




Your card protector example makes no sense. Your issue seems to be that you don't know if the company is lying to you or not. Why not just count the number of card protectors? e.g. you bought a pack of 50, you counted 51 --> they are not lying.

Now...

Have you counted the number of donkeys? In the rulebook, it states that there are 30 grey donkeys.


Based on the OP I imagine he'll have 30. LG just said that the games includes more meeples than would ever be required in a game and therefore they don't need to replace the defective donkey.

That being said I do think not buying anymore of their games is extreme for this example, because the defective bit won't affect gameplay. What it would do for me though is make me lean more towards other companies if I can't decide which game to buy, I just wouldn't boycott them completely.
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Chef D
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GeoMan wrote:
I had a bad experience with Lookout customer service in the past. My LeHavre countersheets were badly mis-aligned. After a couple of complaints they sent me new countersheets.

They were even worst than the ones i already had!

Their games are expensive so their customer service should be top notch, but it is not. Bad for them because they lose customers...


I wholeheartedly disagree. I too have had missing pieces (Walnut Grove) or mis-cut sheets (Le Havre) and Lookout Games has been nothing short of spectacular. A quick email is all I have ever had to send and replacements shipped via airmail to the US. Hanno and team are top notch in my book. I guess I see the glass as half full rather than half empty. Now when you say you sent an email -- were you expecting an immediate response within a few minutes? What do you consider a reasonable time frame for a company to respond? Both times, after sending an email, I have had a response within 5 days. I think that is quite fair for a company that probably has few workers and lots of things to manage in terms of development and production.
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Josh
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Meeples with physical disabilities should be treasured and used preferentially, not rejected and discriminated against.
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Travis Hill
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bloseth wrote:
I got a donkey with super short legs in my copy. Adds to the fun! We alway make up stories about this freak of a donkey. Cheer up, man!


We always name them and give them preferential treatment.
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Dave Meyer
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Josh and Travis, I do have to ask... But what if all 30 of your donkeys were affected with similar disabilities, would you still keep them or contact Lookout and ask for "normal" donkeys?
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Bjørnar Løseth
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I suddenly had an urge for zombie-donkeys! I think I need to buy paint...
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Bjørnar Løseth
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... and find my sharp knife to ensure that each of my donkeys are unique!
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Dave Meyer
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bloseth wrote:
... and find my sharp knife to ensure that each of my donkeys are unique!

Lol... A true Viking
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Bjørnar Løseth
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* OUT OF OFFICE: Out pillaging *
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David Anderson
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I had a bad meeple in my copy of The Pillars of the Earth. Here's what I did:



I like playing blue most of all because of it. My advice, make lemonade.

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Jason Rupp
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It's not free for them to send this and honestly, it's likely causing game prices to increase because people are so demanding. I don't find an issue with their response on this issue.

I know I have been guilty of this as well.

Requires company response(Personal experiences as examples)
* My Dungeon Lord expansion had 1 side of all cardboard tiles majorly mismatched. The backs of the tiles was a mismatch of 2-3 different game piece types and some of the backs were very vital to gameplay.
* Asked for new Mice & Mystics hero because the mouse was glued improperly (he looked like his chest was trying to escape from his body)
* Missing pieces from a variety of games.

Stretching it (probably shouldn't have asked for)
* Asked for new cards for Lewis & Clark because they were too thin
* Asked for new chits in Ora & Labora because they came out poorly when I punched them out.

Didn't/shouldn't ask for
* Super Dungeon Explore figure had a few pieces fall off (was supposed to come pre-assembled... just glued it myself)

I guess I'm just trying to get this out there that if we request things that are really minor or fixable, we're only hurting ourselves in the future because it will either cause companies to go out of business, or more likely, cause them to charge more for their games in the future.
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Darth Ed
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Wow, I can't believe the responses I'm seeing here. In any other game forum here, if someone posted a similar story about a publisher refusing to replace a faulty component, BGG users would rally with their pitchforks and torches and march on the headquarters of the publisher demanding satisfaction. (Check out the threads in the Lewis & Clark forum, for an example of an extreme response.) I guess Lookout/Mayfair gets a pass since we like their games more than most publishers'?

I sympathize with the OP. If any game of mine came with a faulty component, I'd certainly expect the publisher to replace it. That's the standard we should expect across the industry. Shame on Lookout/Mayfair for not doing so.
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Matt Green
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DarthEd wrote:
If any game of mine came with a faulty component, I'd certainly expect the publisher to replace it.


No, it's WORSE THAN THAT: his game came with extra components. Stuff that is simply NOT ON THE COMPONENT LIST.

Madness!

The OP should, quite clearly, count out all the extra pieces he received in his box of Caverna, take his now 100% complete game and mail the rest back to Lookout. The fiends! Trying to palm off extra stuff on poor unsuspecting punters just because they don't wish to run a costly replacement program for components and would rather compensate for manufacturing errors with a known oversupply margin. Different strategies to achieve the same endpoint?! What is this- some kind of eurogame?

What sort of operation are they running here? After all, the OP can still play his game for crying out loud! By rights he should be waiting by his letterbox for bi-lobed donkey!

*exhale*

Lookout 'gets a pass' here because they supplied a game in a playable state. Other companies do not, because they do not. Simple as that.

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