Darrell Louder
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[NOTE: I have spoke to the admins about posting this.]

I want to warn the users of BGG (specifically the Marvel Dice Masters subscribers, of a potential trade scam.

I am including the EXACT messages between myself and Redi Spades & BryanCard. I am doing so to warn everyone, as well as to see if anyone else has encountered an issue with these users, or something similar from a different user. Octavian is aware of the situation and I am trying to help him compile a list of all users that may be involved.

On May 2, 2014 I received the following message from user REDI SPADES:

Redi Spades wrote:

Subject: Dicemasters Trade

I am willing to do my SR - Wolverine: Canucklehead for your SR - Mr. Fantasic: Elastic

Let me know what you think

-Redi Spades


He then, prior to my approval, sent a trade request. That trade request was followed with:

Redi Spades wrote:

Subject: Trade Offer
Sorry to bother you again, but I also noticed that you are more experienced with the trade system than I am (this is my first time). If there is anything that I did wrong in this process, let me know.

-Redi Spades


I looked the user up, and noticed he only signed up in March of this year. I thought about it and shrugged. I was once a new user as well, so I gave him the benefit of a doubt and replied with the following:

GetLouder wrote:

Subject: Re: Trade Offer
Nope, you're fine. All good. I just ask, as it's seems to be your first trade, that you ship first. I'll pack Mr. Fantastic up for you now and have him at the ready.

-Darrell


Redi Spades then send the official 'BGG Shipping Confirmation', but without the tracking number. He did include this note within the shipping confirmation email:

Redi Spades wrote:

It said that it should take three shipping days, so it should be there by the 6th. Let me know when you get it.


This was all done on May 2nd. I had other trades in the works, and didn't think much of it. Then May 9th came long, no card in sight, but this GM appeared from Redi Spades (May 9, 2014 at 8:00am):

Redi Spades wrote:

Subject: No Subject Given
What's the update on the Wolverine and Black Widow trade?

-Redi Spades


This immediately raised a red flag to me. What Wolverine and Black Widow trade? I was only trading Mr. Fantastic for Wolverine. So I replied to clarify.

GetLouder wrote:

Subject: Re: No Subject Given
I think you are confused as you were trading me Wolverine: Canuklehead for my Mr. Fantastic: Elastic. You sent me shipping confirmation, but I do not yet have Wolvie here. I have Mr. Fantastic packed and stamped- just awaiting Wolverine's arrival, as we discussed (precautionary because you have a low trade rating).

If you have any questions, hit me up.

-D


Nothing in response. No I started to wonder if the card was in the mail, after all it had been 7 days since the alleged ship date. Fast forward to Mother's Day (May 11, 2014 at 2:48am). I got this message from user BryanCard:

BryanCard wrote:

Subject: Canucklehead and Tsarina
I have an extra of both [Canknucklehead and Tsarina] and I am willing to trade. Do you have any super rares that you are willing to trade. I am also willing to talk about trading rares for them for the right amount or even just selling them if that is what you are more interested in.

-Bryan


I was torn on this message, as stated above, I was under the thought that Wolvie was on his way to me from Redi Spades. I did, though, want me some Tsarina action. So I responded with my interest (believe me, this is relevant):

GetLouder wrote:

Subject: Re: Canknucklehead and Tsarina
Hey Bryan.

I don't have any spare SRs, but I do have a few spare rares.

Thing, Venom, Gambit, Magneto

I already have Canucklehead, but would love to get my hands on Tsaria.

-D


I informed this user, BryanCard, that I had Canknucklehead, because (again) I thought it was in the mail. I didn't feel the need to go into details with someone I didn't know. I later noticed that the user, BryanCard, was only created on the same day.

Later that evening, May 11th at 7:39pm, I got a message from Redi Spades... this is where seat belts should be fastened and tray tables stored in their upright and locked positions.

Redi Spades wrote:

Subject: Canknucklehead
I just found the shipping and it said that you Canucklehead arrived earlier this week. If you would kindly let me know what the status on that is, that would be great.

Thank you,
Redi Spades


I responded at 9:38PM:

GetLouder wrote:

Subject: Re: Canknucklehead
It is not here Redi; however, I will triple check the mail folder tomorrow morning. Can you please share that tracking number with me (you didn't include it with the shipping confirmation)? I would like to verify you sent it to the correct address and see the time of arrival. I work from home, so I would be here all day everyday.

-Darrell


Ok, I got ahead of myself, THIS is when you need to ensure your seat beats are fastened. Redi replied at 10PM, the same evening.

Redi Spades wrote:

You see Darrell, I expected this. Which is fine. I understand that I will probably never get my fair trade from you. I should have cancelled the trade the second you said that you were going to wait to meet your end of the bargain, and a number of people expressed this to me too. Now, I am going to initiate a small claims court hearing. I will not give the tracking information just yet because it is my current leverage in this hearing, but you can request it with your lawyer. I have already talked to mine earlier this week when I suspected something went wrong on your end (I own a gaming store as a hobby, and we are just going to use the store's lawyer). I am sorry that you have chosen this route of dishonesty and while I don't like losing money, I would rather get someone who is dishonest to be punished for this whole ordeal so that future gamer's on this site do not have to face this injustice. (Yes, that is worth the money I am about to spend, but I am wondering if it is really worth the cost of the cardboard you have sold your soul for).

The subpoena will be processed tomorrow, and we can continue from there. We will never meet each other face to face because I will be outsourcing this to someone else. So, good luck with this and until then, cheers.

-Brandon Baggett


And another message sent at 10:13PM:

Redi Spades wrote:

P.S. You should also know that I am including the store's lawyer's billables in the small claims suit.

Thank you,

Brandon Baggett


No words. I was baffled how someone could jump from being requested the tracking number to law suit. Also, how one could have one with the communication on hand. This was getting fishy... and it's only the tip of the iceberg. I then noticed he gave me a negative trade rating (my only one). It was at this point I contacted Octavian for assistance in the matter.

I was frustrated and, frankly, pissed off. Regardless I replied to Redi Spades May 12, 2014 at 6:09AM

GetLouder wrote:

Brandon.

I have been a member of this community for over 3 years. Board games are my career, both as a game designer and game graphic designer. I have had MANY successful, high value, trades on BGG with no incident- until you.

I asked for the tracking number in an attempt to aid you in locating the package. If the shipping info does confirm that it has been delivered to my house I would've had no problem sending you Mr. Fantastic, as agreed upon, and let the loss be on my end. However, upon asking for it, you threaten legal action and sully my good trade standing on BGG with slander?

I will ask you, one last time, to share the tracking number with me- so that I can confirm it has been sent and arrived. Otherwise, please send me your lawyer's contact information so that I can forward it on to my legal team.

Thank you.
Darrell Louder


I said legal team, and I was serious. If he wanted to go this route, let's not dick-around, you wanna be impossible... well I can be as well. My email went unanswered for the day, but sure enough Redi responded on May 13 at 9:36PM

Redi Spades wrote:

Derrell,

I have talked today with the lawyer who will be handling this case and he will contact you shortly, probably tomorrow. He will inform you of the track information and how the suit will work. He also informed me that given this situation and what the firm I work for is attempting to do, it is in our interest for me to be there in person (he will explain that shortly). Thank you for helping to develop our product.

-Brandon


Ok, so he seemed to ignore my previous message. No problem, I was now eager to see what this 'lawyer' was going to call me an talk to me about. Then, no phone call. No letter in the mail. Nope, this lawyer seemed to be a geek and he messaged me through Geek Mail!! I sh*t you not. This is where we get the return of the user BryanCard, May 13 at 6:19AM.

BryanCard wrote:

Darrell,

Let me take a second to introduce myself. I am not Bryan, this is an account that Brandon created to gain further evidence against you. My name is Spencer Hubbard and I represent Brandon Baggett on a number of legal issues for some of his side businesses. You have repeatedly asked for the tracking information and now that he has received permission from his boss, he has asked me to explain it to you. He works for a technology firm that has been developing low cost GPS chips that are now in the testing phase. The employees have recently been invited to include them in diverse places, including their mail so that they could track the movement of their parcels and see how well the chips functioned on a smaller level. Brandon included one in the packaging and when he initially heard that you had not received the item, he went to pin point its location. He quickly discovered that the tracking chip was at your house ([GEO COORDS OF MY ADDRESS]) for some time, but then on Thursday morning it was in transit to random locations throughout Dover. At first, Brandon assumed that it was with a postal service truck due to some shipping error but it eventually came to rest at a static location (39°02'14"N 75°43'32"W). After further investigation he discovered that this was apart of the Sandtown Landfill and so he decided to do some digging. He created this account to propose a fake trade to see if you really did receive the item in question, which you clearly state "I already have Canucklehead." This is where you continued to deny ever receiving it. After speaking with his firm, they quickly saw the value that their product could have in protecting others from such scandals as this one. They want to launch a full case against you with all of the data that they have. The firm wants to make you their poster child of what can happen when someone tries to abuse the system. Brandon quickly realized that this could mean drastic consequences for you, your company Get Louder Design LLC, and your family. While people can recover in the business world from making mistakes, an act of dishonestly ruins careers. With that being said, you should know a bit about Brandon. He does not want to ruin your life. He went against the firms decision and instead asked that they make a statistic out of you, not a face. He is willing to offer you a settlement to prevent all of this from happening. It contains the following three parts:

1. You fulfill your end of the trade with the product (Marvel Dice Masters: Avengers vs. X-Men; Card 131: Mr. Fantastic: Elastic) in good condition. If you are unable to do this, he wants his item (Marvel Dice Masters: Avengers vs. X-Men; Card 132: Wolverine: Canucklehead) returned in the condition that he sent it (mint condition).
2. You write a note of apology to him.
3. You write the administrator Matthew Monin, with the screen name "Octavian" apologizing for the misuse of the trade system here on boardgamegeek.com
He has told me to keep this offer on the table until this Friday (May 16th, 2014). If you accept this offer, do not message me on this website, but send it directly to my email at S.Hubbard.JD@gmail.com
I will no longer check this account. If you do not, I have been instructed to file the paperwork next week for small claims court in Dover, Delaware.

Thank you,
Spencer Hubbard, JD
S.Hubbard.JD@gmail.com


Wow, he'll drop it all if I ship him a card?! REALLY? I never saw THAT coming in a million years. shake

I sent this along, again, to Octavian and also emailed Eric Martin. I haven't, and won't, reply to these users at all.

So please be wary when trading. Please avoid new users. As amazing as this community is, this is a blaring reminder that there are bad eggs among us.

If you have any questions on this, feel free to drop a message below. I have absolutely NOTHING to hide. As a quick reminder though, please avoid users Redi Spades and BryanCard. Nothing by trouble lurks there.

Sorry for the long post, but hopefully it helps someone avoid the mountain of BS I am dealing with.
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Jeremiah H
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It's a bluff.
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i thought we couldn't call out users here?

but yeah, a lot of shady people have appeared with this game
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!!!


"The subpoena will be processed tomorrow, and we can continue from there. We will never meet each other face to face because I will be outsourcing this to someone else. So, good luck with this and until then, cheers."

HAHAhAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
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James Derbyshire
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That's the funniest lawyer's letter I've ever read! Classic! Is that really how some people think they correspond with people? Watched a bit too much Scooby Doo I think! Brilliant! laugh
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Moose Detective
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Is it a moose that became a detective ? Or a detective who searches for moose?
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That's a pretty hysterical scam.

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G Schulteis
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Wow. Dice is serious business.
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Henry Ho
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Thanks for sharing! Hope this mess will just go away! Good luck!
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Darrell Louder
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DrWhoWho wrote:
i thought we couldn't call out users here?

but yeah, a lot of shady people have appeared with this game


I was 'allowed' to post this if I only gave the facts, kept the post civil, polite, and informative. No mud-slinging.
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James Bentley
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Wow, what a load of horse poo.

This sounds shady from the get-go. Stick to your guns Darrell!
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oh man this is beyond hilarious. I wonder if the GPS location he gave is the real coordinates of your house and the landfill. Cause it would be even more hilarious that he put in so much effort to search for the coordinates and yet not realise that lawyers do not use gmail for their correspondence.
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Darrell Louder
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Zexius wrote:
oh man this is beyond hilarious. I wonder if the GPS location he gave is the real coordinates of your house and the landfill. Cause it would be even more hilarious that he put in so much effort to search for the coordinates and yet not realise that lawyers do not use gmail for their correspondence.


They are.
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Brad Smoley
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There are no words.

^
Except these (and these).
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Brandon Kempf
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Man, I really hope this is just TC, Chris or someone just messing with you, otherwise this is really kind of sad.
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Matt Morgan
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Was the date of the delivery a garbage day, and does your garbage collection service use that specific landfill, or did he just find whatever seemed to be the closest landfill to your house?

Also, really curious to know if he actually provided you an address to ship him the card. Let's get some Google Street View on there and see what the house looks like.
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You might want to edit to remove the "GPS" location if you don't want everyone on the internet to know your address.

Is it against the law to impersonate a lawyer? The real Spencer Hubbard JD might not be happy about it either.
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Chris Long
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getlouder wrote:
Zexius wrote:
oh man this is beyond hilarious. I wonder if the GPS location he gave is the real coordinates of your house and the landfill. Cause it would be even more hilarious that he put in so much effort to search for the coordinates and yet not realise that lawyers do not use gmail for their correspondence.


They are.


Wait a minute... does your garbage get picked up on Thursdays? Because if it does, now that's really weird. If it doesn't, then why would he include that specificity?
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Dan Knight
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That cracked me up. Thanks for the heads up, and highly entertaining read.
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Kenneth Chan
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So how's that apology letter coming? whistle

I did want to mention I did a trade with a new member of BGG also and requested him to send first which he agreed. Trade completed without any problems. Good thing too as I'm terrible at writing apology letters ninja
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Mike Bialecki
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If it is at all possible without getting yourself into any trouble on BGG or "legally", please, please, please, keep us updated. Truly fascinating.
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Dustin Schwartz
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Sorry to hear about this, Darrell. I've been following the epic saga on Twitter. Good grief!
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Darrell Louder
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gundabad wrote:
Was the date of the delivery a garbage day, and does your garbage collection service use that specific landfill, or did he just find whatever seemed to be the closest landfill to your house?

Also, really curious to know if he actually provided you an address to ship him the card. Let's get some Google Street View on there and see what the house looks like.


Our trash day is indeed on Thursdays, and Sandtown Landfill is where recyclables go to be processed. You can find this information easily online. The thing is (like most households) our trash is a week behind. Meaning that this Thursday (tomorrow) is last week's trash. I searched it and the recycle bin last night- nothing.

I also did a google street view of his place, it's an apartment complex.
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Darrell Louder
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cornixt wrote:
You might want to edit to remove the "GPS" location if you don't want everyone on the internet to know your address.

Is it against the law to impersonate a lawyer? The real Spencer Hubbard JD might not be happy about it either.


Good call, removed.

It is, it is also prohibited for a JD (one who has not taken, or passed the BAR) to give any sort of legal advice.

I checked online though, and from all searching this 'Spencer Hubbard' does not seem to exist. Unless he is off the grid.
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Darrell Louder
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mbialeck wrote:
If it is at all possible without getting yourself into any trouble on BGG or "legally", please, please, please, keep us updated. Truly fascinating.

I will.
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Mike Bialecki
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getlouder wrote:
Brandon included one in the packaging and when he initially heard that you had not received the item, he went to pin point its location. He quickly discovered that the tracking chip was at your house (39°08'52"N 75°33'44"W) for some time, but then on Thursday morning it was in transit to random locations throughout Dover. At first, Brandon assumed that it was with a postal service truck due to some shipping error but it eventually came to rest at a static location (39°02'14"N 75°43'32"W). After further investigation he discovered that this was apart of the Sandtown Landfill and so he decided to do some digging.

Playing Devil's Advocate:

Edit: Whoops ninjaed.

Is it possible that everything said here is true? Was the package simply an envelope of cards? Is it at all possible that the envelope arrived, got mixed in with your junk mail, and tossed in your garbage? Do the second set of coordinates really correspond to the Sandtown Landfill? Is this landfill the place where your garbage is taken?
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