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Terra Mystica» Forums » Strategy

Subject: The effect of token sacrifice on your power engine speed rss

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Rhett Morgan
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sthrjo wrote:

So the rotational speed of your power engine goes up when you sacrifice power tokens, but that is not in itself a good thing, it is a necessity to keep your engine effective.


This is false. If you'll refer to the other discussion again you'll see that this has been disproven conclusively.

For quicker reference see below.
http://cf.geekdo-images.com/images/pic2013335_lg.jpg
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Bryan Thunkd
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Prodigaldax wrote:
sthrjo wrote:

So the rotational speed of your power engine goes up when you sacrifice power tokens, but that is not in itself a good thing, it is a necessity to keep your engine effective.


This is false. If you'll refer to the other discussion again you'll see that this has been disproven conclusively.

For quicker reference see below.
http://cf.geekdo-images.com/images/pic2013335_lg.jpg
Specifically, by the end of the image both players have 6 bits that have reached bowl 3 twice during the depicted sequence. Alice's discs have gotten no further than Bob's in the same period of time, thus they have the same speed.
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Grant
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Prodigaldax wrote:
sthrjo wrote:

So the rotational speed of your power engine goes up when you sacrifice power tokens, but that is not in itself a good thing, it is a necessity to keep your engine effective.


This is false. If you'll refer to the other discussion again you'll see that this has been disproven conclusively.

For quicker reference see below.
http://cf.geekdo-images.com/images/pic2013335_lg.jpg

I think he's right, in the context of how he's defined his own terms. I THINK what he's trying to say, through his utterly convoluted breathing analogy, is that with fewer tokens you have to spend power more frequently and in smaller quantities in order to not miss the opportunity to gain power because bowl 3 is full.

It's an extraordinarily obvious observation to make, but he's couched it inside such an obtuse metaphor that it's difficult to parse out what he's actually saying.

I might be completely wrong about what I think is being explained here. zombie
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Rhett Morgan
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grant5 wrote:

I think he's right, in the context of how he's defined his own terms. I THINK what he's trying to say, through his utterly convoluted breathing analogy, is that with fewer tokens you have to spend power more frequently and in smaller quantities in order to not miss the opportunity to gain power because bowl 3 is full.

It's an extraordinarily obvious observation to make, but he's couched it inside such an obtuse metaphor that it's difficult to parse out what he's actually saying.

I might be completely wrong about what I think is being explained here. zombie


I think I see what you mean. In the context of his own discussion, exhaling only really needs to be 1 power for 1 coin per turn until you can use the power on an action you want (if you look at it that way) or dump all of your power for coins before passing so that you can get it all back at the beginning of the following round. Efficiency doesn't really come into it.
 
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Joel Schuster
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So, it is THAT discussion again robot
 
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Robert Stewart
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grant5 wrote:
Prodigaldax wrote:
sthrjo wrote:

So the rotational speed of your power engine goes up when you sacrifice power tokens, but that is not in itself a good thing, it is a necessity to keep your engine effective.


This is false. If you'll refer to the other discussion again you'll see that this has been disproven conclusively.

For quicker reference see below.
http://cf.geekdo-images.com/images/pic2013335_lg.jpg

I think he's right, in the context of how he's defined his own terms. I THINK what he's trying to say, through his utterly convoluted breathing analogy, is that with fewer tokens you have to spend power more frequently and in smaller quantities in order to not miss the opportunity to gain power because bowl 3 is full.

It's an extraordinarily obvious observation to make, but he's couched it inside such an obtuse metaphor that it's difficult to parse out what he's actually saying.

I might be completely wrong about what I think is being explained here. zombie


Yeah, he's defined "rotational speed" to be how often you find yourself in the position of having to spend power to avoid wasting power income. It's not strictly true that rotational speed will be lower if you haven't burned power, but it's true that it can be - with any amount of burned power you can "hyperventilate" - spend 1 power every time Bowl III is full - and have the same rotational speed as if you'd burned 11 power, but with less power burned, you can also spend 3 or 5 or more power every time Bowl III fills, and have a slower rotational speed.

It boils down to the observation that burning power limits how much power you can spend at once, and thus how much power you could gain at once.
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Rhett Morgan
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sthrjo wrote:

This is a correct reflection on what I stated in the original post. The poster would have got a thumb and some gg if it was not for the unfriendly 3rd person language.


Your original argument aside this is some great language in and of itself. English isn't your native? You're pretty artistic with it.
 
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Bryan Thunkd
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rmsgrey wrote:
Yeah, he's defined "rotational speed" to be how often you find yourself in the position of having to spend power to avoid wasting power income. It's not strictly true that rotational speed will be lower if you haven't burned power, but it's true that it can be - with any amount of burned power you can "hyperventilate" - spend 1 power every time Bowl III is full - and have the same rotational speed as if you'd burned 11 power, but with less power burned, you can also spend 3 or 5 or more power every time Bowl III fills, and have a slower rotational speed.
So it's all a very convoluted way of saying that sacrificing discs means that you run the risk of getting more power than you can accept? Ummm... okay. Then that's a really complicated and confusing way to explain something very obvious.
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Robert Stewart
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Another way of looking at power is that for any given power income, you need to spend power at a particular average rate in order to keep up. The less power you've burned, the more scope you have to average over longer time periods.

For example, if you gain 12 power per round, you need to spend an average of 6 power per round to keep up. If you have 12 discs, then you can get that average by spending 12 power every 2 rounds; if you've burned 6, then you need your 6 per round average to actually be spending 6 every round; if you've burned 9 power to leave you with just 3 discs, then you need your power gain to be split up so you can spend 3 power twice in each round...
 
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Bryan Thunkd
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Do people really have that much trouble spending power and getting stuck in situations they can't accept it? I have the exact opposite problem most of the time!
 
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Chris Maloof

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Thunkd wrote:
Do people really have that much trouble spending power and getting stuck in situations they can't accept it? I have the exact opposite problem most of the time!

It depends a lot on how many players there are -- a crowded map results in both more power for everyone, and fewer available power actions per person.
 
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Robert Stewart
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Thunkd wrote:
Do people really have that much trouble spending power and getting stuck in situations they can't accept it? I have the exact opposite problem most of the time!


Depends how much you burn.

If you're playing the game well, you'll stop burning power at about the point where you're going to start wasting power income. If you're playing brilliantly, you might or might not stop there, but you'll have a good reason either way.

If burning power moved the burned power to Bowl I rather than removing it from the game, then I'd expect you to see more power being burned over the course of the game, so it's not like the negative consequences of burning power aren't affecting your games - it's just that they're doing it by getting you to play around them rather than by biting directly.
 
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