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Subject: Lukas: Sensei + Cell Portal rss

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Harris Enniss
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Lukas wrote:
Quote:

Suppose the ice on a server is arranged, outermost to innermost: Sensei, Wall of Static, Cell Portal, all rezzed.

If the runner does not break the subroutine on Sensei, breaks the subroutines on Wall of Static, is returned to the outermost ice by Cell Portal, and does not break the subroutine on Sensei the second time they encounter it, how many subroutines does Wall of Static have the second time they encounter it?

Is it...

Three: the native subroutine, plus one from each encounter with Sensei?

Or four: the native subroutine, plus one gained during their first encounter with Wall of Static, plus two more gained during their second encounter with Wall of Static?


Thanks for the question. The answer is three: one + one for each time Sensei has been encountered. Hope that helps,


Edit: But not long after that got this message:

Lukas wrote:
I checked some previous ruling and wanted to follow up on this. Sensei's original subroutine is still active, and so the Wall of Static would actually have four subroutines instead of three. Sorry for the confusion.
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Brian H
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EDIT: Never mind.

 
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Ken Dilloo
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Maybe I am completely daft (entirely possible), but wouldn't the Portal still get an ETR that would fire if unbroken?
 
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Bradley Galbraith
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I don't think so Ken. The ETR subroutine is added after the one that returns you to the front of the server.

I'm not sure I understand the question being asked of Lukas in OP. Why would there be 4 ETR subroutines if Sensei was only triggered twice? 1 base + 2 added = 3 total.
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Harris Enniss
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bigloo33 wrote:
Maybe I am completely daft (entirely possible), but wouldn't the Portal still get an ETR that would fire if unbroken?


Cell Portal would get an ETR subroutine (or two for the second encounter). However, these would not fire unless the first subroutine is broken, because the first subroutine ends the encounter.
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Brian H
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So technically yes, Cell Portal gains an ETR sub but the original sub fires first.

This ruling seems a bit odd. If you hit Sensei twice, shouldn't it be adding 2 subs to each ICE after it, because it is still during the same run?

Likewise, does Sensei gain an ETR sub the second time, or does it not because the card refers to itself with the "except Sensei" statement and even though you are encountering it twice, it doesn't gain the sub?
 
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Ken Dilloo
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Ah, OK. Thought that might be the case, but wasn't sure if all subroutines had to fire anyway. Never thought about putting ETR stuff with Cell Portal, only horribly brutal stuff arrrh
 
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Bradley Galbraith
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MavericK96 wrote:
So technically yes, Cell Portal gains an ETR sub but the original sub fires first.

This ruling seems a bit odd. If you hit Sensei twice, shouldn't it be adding 2 subs to each ICE after it, because it is still during the same run?

Likewise, does Sensei gain an ETR sub the second time, or does it not because the card refers to itself with the "except Sensei" statement and even though you are encountering it twice, it doesn't gain the sub?


Definitely not.

[Subroutine] For the remainder of this run, each piece of ice encountered except Sensei gains "[Subroutine] End the run" after all its other subroutines.

edit: erm, misread what you said, but still no because it's a self referential term. It cannot effect itself when it says "except Sensei".
 
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Harris Enniss
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PaxCecilia wrote:

I'm not sure I understand the question being asked of Lukas in OP. Why would there be 4 ETR subroutines if Sensei was only triggered twice? 1 base + 2 added = 3 total.


The first time Wall of Static is encountered, it has 2 total subroutines. When the runner comes around and encounters it again, they've encountered Sensei twice on the run, so one might expect it to gain two more subroutines -- one for each active instance of Sensei's effect.

It came up in a discussion of Sensei and Komainu earlier this week.
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Bradley Galbraith
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Oh okay, I see how that could be argued. I guess we'll have to take the word of Lukas Our Lords and Saviour (more commonly refered to as LOLS).
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Harris Enniss
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Hang on folks:

Lukas wrote:
I checked some previous ruling and wanted to follow up on this. Sensei's original subroutine is still active, and so the Wall of Static would actually have four subroutines instead of three. Sorry for the confusion.
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I think the key is "gain." There's no limit here, so each time the sub fires, an ETR is gained. The sub would fire if not broken in each encounter.

Related question: the Sensei-added ETR sub on Cell Portal doesn't fire because the first subroutine on Cell Portal derezes the ice, right? So would Susanoo-no-mikito, by contrast, first move the runner to Archives, and then ETR?
 
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Ken Dilloo
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bigloo33 wrote:
Maybe I am completely daft (entirely possible), but wouldn't the Portal still get an ETR that would fire if unbroken?


Great question. The questioner approaches the top of the thread. Derez question.
 
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Gregory Pettigrew
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scumblr wrote:
I think the key is "gain." There's no limit here, so each time the sub fires, an ETR is gained. The sub would fire if not broken in each encounter.

Related question: the Sensei-added ETR sub on Cell Portal doesn't fire because the first subroutine on Cell Portal derezes the ice, right? So would Susanoo-no-mikito, by contrast, first move the runner to Archives, and then ETR?


I believe since he is not protecting Archives, that his first Subroutine firing would end the Encounter, but that's a good question for Lukas.
 
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Brian H
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PaxCecilia wrote:
MavericK96 wrote:
So technically yes, Cell Portal gains an ETR sub but the original sub fires first.

This ruling seems a bit odd. If you hit Sensei twice, shouldn't it be adding 2 subs to each ICE after it, because it is still during the same run?

Likewise, does Sensei gain an ETR sub the second time, or does it not because the card refers to itself with the "except Sensei" statement and even though you are encountering it twice, it doesn't gain the sub?


Definitely not.

[Subroutine] For the remainder of this run, each piece of ice encountered except Sensei gains "[Subroutine] End the run" after all its other subroutines.

edit: erm, misread what you said, but still no because it's a self referential term. It cannot effect itself when it says "except Sensei".


Yeah, that is what I figured but I wasn't 100% sure.

Glad to hear Lukas corrected what he originally said...it didn't make sense.
 
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Brian H
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scumblr wrote:

Related question: the Sensei-added ETR sub on Cell Portal doesn't fire because the first subroutine on Cell Portal derezes the ice, right? So would Susanoo-no-mikito, by contrast, first move the runner to Archives, and then ETR?


My guess is that no, it doesn't ETR because once you are transferred to Archives you are not really encountering Susanoo anymore, right? The card says "The runner is now running on Archives instead of passing Susanoo-no-Mikoto"...to me that says you are no longer affected by any other subroutines on Susanoo.
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