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Subject: I've finally watched Battleships and Pacific Rim... rss

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David
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and found them both disappointing.

Granted I went into them with drastically different expectations but still. One was criticized ad nauseum and the other one was recommended to me by a fellow BGG user as "even better than Avengers". In the end neither managed to hold up to it's promises.

Battleships: Yeah, it's a pretty dumb, predictable movie. And Taylor Kitsch's performance is pure Kitsch. (Well not just his) But overall I've seen much worse movies. This arc is complete, if a bit sudden. His decoration in the end I feel is justified considering that:
* He did come up with the strategy to take out the last cruiser
* He was "smart" enough to hand over the reigns to the Japanese guy when he realized he was outmatched.
* And he apparently was the only guy who thought about getting the battleship unmothballed.

As for that ridiculous slingshot maneuver in the final battle... If the movie really wants to act like that's even remotely possible, yeah give him a medal of that too.

I liked it a lot more than those stupid Transformer movies.

Pacific Rim aka "2 hours of watching people walk in lockstep": Obviously this is the better movie of the two but I was expecting A LOT more.

The effects and the acting's a lot better but it's not really surpassing Avengers.

The plot is just as ridiculous and predictable as either of the two other movies but packs an unnecessary helping of "Save the planet" nonsense and a love story even more shallow than "Thor"...

Let's see:

Two pointlessly eccentric and competitive science misfit's.
Spoiler (click to reveal)
What? Their competing approaches turn out to be complementing each other and the two guys will share a misfit mobilization moment straight out of the book together? You don't say!


Mysterious figure dramatically approaching the protagonist with an umbrella covering the face:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Nah. Couldn't POSSIBLY be an important character (Well I'd be right about that one if there were any better character in the movie) and pretty much the only exception to the whole sausage fest...


Hugely successful and highly respected non-US teams:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
I'm sure nothing bad will happen to them throughout the move. Especially the Russians. They'll be fine...


Mysterious figure not allowed to qualify for the open position for vague reasons by an overly protective base commander? Immediately spells out the following:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
She obviously gets the job
Check
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Becomes love interest of main char
Check
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Helps him to overcome the traumatizing loss of his brother
Check
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Vice versa
Check
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Base commander dies now that she's got another man to look out for her.
Check

Asshole on other US-Team:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Dies in redeeming heroic sacrifice
Check
Non-Asshole on other US-Team:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Survives
Check

That's what I like about Avengers. Sure the story is pretty crazy and it's twists not particularly difficult too but it set out to do ONE thing: A funny/witty action movie. Where as Pacifc Rim tries to do too many things on the expense of others. There's no humor to speak of to lighten the mood, yet the desperation is never really played up either leaving the move at an awkward middle ground where it doesn't really have any emotional impact. Dropping an ensemble story they went for the good old "a boy and his robot" but adding in a superficial love story. Granted, that comparison is a bit unfair considering Avengers had a bunch of movies to get all that set up or out of the way. But still I feel the movie would have benefited if they dropped the love interest and maybe forced the asshole and the main character to team up instead. And man is it easy to get over some trauma in this movie. We see one "little" outburst, they talk a bit and everything is fine.

About the best thing in Pacific Rim was Glados.

And I don't even like her.
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Michael Carter
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The Avengers was a blah movie anyway. It's a toss-up between The Avengers and Pacific Rim for me with The Avengers winning just because of the cast.
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Josh Jennings
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The worst part of Pacific Rim was:

Spoiler (click to reveal)
That they had an energy sword the whole time and they waited until the end to use it.


What the hell?!
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Chris Long
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I watched Pacific Rim a couple weeks ago and I thought it was a complete piece of crap. I had heard such good things about it, but it was stupid hollywood crap that virtually anyone could have written. Complete waste of my time.

Avengers on the other hand was fucking awesome. Great characters, great dialogue. Say what you want about Joss Whedon but he knows how to write good ensemble pieces and give everyone a chance to shine.
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Matt Brown
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mlcarter815 wrote:
The Avengers was a blah movie anyway.



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Matthew M
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Haven't seen Battleship.

Pacific Rim rules.

Avengers rules.

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Michael Carter
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matthean wrote:
mlcarter815 wrote:
The Avengers was a blah movie anyway.





All of the Marvel movies have been good, but not amazing. They are fine popcorn movies but they aren't examples of great film.
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You put waaaay too much time into analyzing big, dumb, Hollywood action blockbusters.
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Michael Carter
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fightcitymayor wrote:
You put waaaay too much time into analyzing big, dumb, Hollywood action blockbusters.


I have no problem watching blockbusters. I just prefer some intelligence in my films. At least the Nolan Batman movies attempted to be more than just comic book schlock.
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mlcarter815 wrote:
All of the Marvel movies have been good, but not amazing. They are fine popcorn movies but they aren't examples of great film.


Marvel isn't going for awards. They are going for fans. I honestly can't recall how long it has been since a movie made me want to go rewatch it the instant it ended. Not even The Dark Knight did that.
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fightcitymayor
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mlcarter815 wrote:
fightcitymayor wrote:
You put waaaay too much time into analyzing big, dumb, Hollywood action blockbusters.
I have no problem watching blockbusters. I just prefer some intelligence in my films. At least the Nolan Batman movies attempted to be more than just comic book schlock.
I'm specifically addressing the OP's original 10-spoiler treatise.

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Michael Carter
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matthean wrote:
mlcarter815 wrote:
All of the Marvel movies have been good, but not amazing. They are fine popcorn movies but they aren't examples of great film.


Marvel isn't going for awards. They are going for fans. I honestly can't recall how long it has been since a movie made me want to go rewatch it the instant it ended. Not even The Dark Knight did that.


Hey, if you like shallow movies, I'm not going to stop you.
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thermogimp wrote:
The worst part of Pacific Rim was:

Spoiler (click to reveal)
That they had an energy sword the whole time and they waited until the end to use it.


What the hell?!


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Dan Cristelli
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Octavian wrote:
Haven't seen Battleship.

Pacific Rim rules.

Avengers rules.



+1

A BIG +1.
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Kempeth wrote:
That's what I like about Avengers. Sure the story is pretty crazy and it's twists not particularly difficult too but it set out to do ONE thing: A funny/witty action movie. Where as Pacifc Rim tries to do too many things on the expense of others. There's no humor to speak of to lighten the mood, yet the desperation is never really played up either leaving the move at an awkward middle ground where it doesn't really have any emotional impact. Dropping an ensemble story they went for the good old "a boy and his robot" but adding in a superficial love story.


'Pacific Rim' was a kaiju movie aimed at fans of Kaiju movies. The fun isn't in the story, it's in the glorious wallowing in the sea of kaiju (and anime) references. Claiming it isn't a good 'action movie' is like complaining that 'FLCL' doesn't make sense or that 'Kill Bill' was 'just a kung fu movie'.

That's what the whole movie was to me, 'look, that's from Evangelion!', 'oooh, that's from Mothra!', etc, etc.

Honestly, I would have still enjoyed it even if I didn't know where most of those bits came from, it was soooo much better than the Transformer movies were. (Although that's not setting the bar very far is it? )
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Kempeth wrote:
Blah Blah Blah


So if they speak English they're automatically the other US team? There were 4 Jaegers, 1 Chinese, 1 Russian, 1 American, and 1 Aussie, who only in the final act had half an American team.

I enjoyed Avengers and Pacific Rim, but I don't know why anyone would say Rim was better.

Rim was just good fun monster mayhem. It wasn't meant to be serious. Sounds like that's how you took it though.

As for Battleship, it was kinda boring, but I liked the game references. I mean seriously, what were you expecting for a movie based on a board game?

There hasn't been a good one since Clue.
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David
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Gecko23 wrote:
'Pacific Rim' was a kaiju movie aimed at fans of Kaiju movies. The fun isn't in the story, it's in the glorious wallowing in the sea of kaiju (and anime) references. Claiming it isn't a good 'action movie' is like complaining that 'FLCL' doesn't make sense or that 'Kill Bill' was 'just a kung fu movie'.

That's what the whole movie was to me, 'look, that's from Evangelion!', 'oooh, that's from Mothra!', etc, etc.
Thank you. That gives me a much better "understanding" of the movie. I don't get those references. But knowing they are there makes and the target audience makes it easier for me to understand why it exists.

COMPNOR wrote:
So if they speak English they're automatically the other US team? There were 4 Jaegers, 1 Chinese, 1 Russian, 1 American, and 1 Aussie, who only in the final act had half an American team.
I misremembered. You're correct. That doesn't sound at all like US-English. My apologies.

Gecko23 wrote:
Honestly, I would have still enjoyed it even if I didn't know where most of those bits came from, it was soooo much better than the Transformer movies were. (Although that's not setting the bar very far is it? )
Yes. Yes definitely.

The problem is that I approached the Marvel movies and Pacific Rim as someone how doesn't care about all the comics and lore and stuff that came before. I just watch these things as movies.
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Pacific Rim was 85% of the way there..in every respect.


Nothing was awesome, just almost awesome.


I take my Kaiju very seriously. I've seen them all...Gorgo, Mighty Peking Man, Inframan, Daimajin, Frankenstein, X From outer Space, every Gamera & Godzilla movie...probably 20 more you'll never end up seeing...hell I have Ultraman and Godzilla tattoos on my forearms.


That movie was not made for Kaiju fans. It was made in spite of Kaiju fans.

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I thought both were equally fine
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Andy Andersen
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Movies? Are you kidding me?

I've got a 650 square foot garden that takes up my days.

Movies? Hahahahahaha
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I'll be the major dissenter here, Avengers was okay but not great.

It suffered from the new action technique of speed switching cameras so fights are chaotic, difficult to follow and generally a mess. Robert Downy Jr. remained awesome as always.

The bad guys were incredibly forgettable.

The best part was the end credits scene with them all eating.

And there was Pacific Rim which was over the top awesome.

memorable scenes include:

containers used as quarter rolls

A container ship used as a baseball bat

The 1st appearance of Hanibal Chow

The last appearance of Hannibal Chow

Too many incredible Kaiju fight scenes to count.

Pacific Rim is the one I remember. I do like Godzilla movies so there is a bias here.

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Smilinbrax wrote:

It suffered from the new action technique of speed switching cameras so fights are chaotic, difficult to follow and generally a mess. Robert Downy Jr. remained awesome as always.


I found it all pretty easy to follow the first time and completely coherent on subsequent viewings, but obviously YMMV.

Quote:

The bad guys were incredibly forgettable.


Good! This was an origin story about a superhero team. Spotlight should be on the team.


We agree that Pacific Rim is also awesome.

-MMM
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Yeah, Pacific Rim was pretty much fantastic. It felt fresh, fun and enjoyable. All things I want from my movies.

Avengers, of course, was excellent - that's already been well established.

But it's always interesting to hear different takes on these movies, even opinions that don't seem terribly valid.
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Whenever I see someone panning Avengers, I always have to wonder if they caught what was actually going on in the movie.

To wit: who is the protagonist of Avengers? Is it Iron Man? Captain America? Black Widow?

No. The protagonist of Avengers is Loki. He's the only one who wants something -- and his want is what drives the entire movie.

What does Loki want? He wants to escape from Thanos.

How does he plan to do this? By telling Thanos he'll go to Earth and bring him the cube if only he can have Earth for himself. Really? Loki wants Earth? No he doesn't. Loki wants Asgard. But before he can conquer Asgard, he needs to get away from Thanos.

One think Loki cannot stomach: being ruled. Did anyone honestly believe Loki would settle for being a governor in Thanos' universe? Really?

Thanos is on him like glue. Okay. Who can protect Loki from Thanos? How about . . . Odin? So Loki goes to Earth and starts tearing the place up, knowing Odin will sent Thor to collect him. The other Avengers? Fine enough, but all Loki cares about is Thor bringing him back to Asgard where he'll be safe from Thanos and able to bide his time before stealing the throne.

Seriously. Watch the movie and watch Loki put himself front and center. Watch him NOT escape while Thor, Iron Man and Cap are beating each other up. Selvig things he fought Loki's control and put a kill switch into the portal device? Ha! Loki made him build the kill switch before leaving his spear right there on the ground for them to find.

It's important to note that protagonist doesn't necessarily equal hero -- at least from our point of view.

Also, here's a possible spoiler for future Avengers movies:

Spoiler (click to reveal)
At the end of Thor 2, Loki sits on the throne of Asgard in Odin's place.

He sends the Aether -- one of the Infinity Stones Thanos is collecting -- to the Collector for safekeeping. Because it's something Odin would do. And Loki is keeping up appearances.

But it's not something Loki would do, is it? Of course not.

So, when Thanos is doing his big, giant bad in Avengers 3 or whatever, and he thinks he's got all the Infinity Stones, maybe he's in for a surprise when he finds out Loki sent a dummy in its place. Tell me that's not exactly the sort of thing Loki (or Joss Whedon, for that matter) would do -- not to screw over Thanos (or maybe, okay, yeah, to screw over Thanos -- but to hold onto power for himself).

It's quite possible I'm wrong, but if I'm not, just think about it. Think about Marvel laying seeds for double-crosses in movies years before they're ever filmed, much less shown. Think about the universe Marvel is creating and realize there really has never, ever been anything like this before and how exciting it is.

And think about how, when Thanos is ultimately defeated, maybe it's Loki who makes that possible.
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