Jack Neal
United States
Liverpool
New York
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
Hi all,

I'm working through a solitaire design for the Decktet. I'd worked on a solitaire variants for Jacynth and Quincunx and I love those games as well as Magnate and Color Bazaar but I hadn't found anything that was pick up and deliver with resource management. I think this design does what I want it to do. It is inspired by the mechanics and economics of train games but it is stripped down and simplified.

I'm looking for feedback on how the rules are written, how the game progresses and anything else you'd like to contribute. It may work for two but I'm not sure.

Synopsis and general game flow below the link (and included in the Google Doc).

Thank you - Jack

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1cnHwAabJ4kQQP6RN_RGOI0yc...

How Things Are Now:

The clans of Jacynth are a peaceful lot and each one is renowned for exotic dyes and riches unique to their corner of the world. The most prized of these luxuries are the spices each clan produces; the Wyrms cure scaline grass to treat mysterious ailments. The Tribes of the Sun produce an esoteric blend of catnip and mustard that leaves diners frisky with a bad taste in their mouths. The Blue Crescents harvest moonlight seed for wines that have been fermenting for centuries. The Oak Ones have passed their recipes of pollens and seeds to transform the most wretched of foodstuffs into spectacular delicacies. Oceanix prefer to dabble with kelp, plankton, crushed shells and oyster jams for their sublime palates. Then there are the Merchants of the Knot who don’t really care about any of this but are more than happy to take all of this stuff, throw it on carts and ship it to everyone else.

You have been trading for several years but it has been increasingly difficult to make a living... the royals are demanding ever more tribute to maintain their perfectly manicured estates and even though provincial relations are warm the endless haggling between clans grows tiresome.

Your dearest hope is to make it to the end of the year with enough gold put away to ease into a comfortable retirement. Acquiring choice Blue Crescent spirits along the way wouldn’t hurt either.

Basic Sketch of Play:

A tableaux of cards is built that represents the provinces in the kingdom. Aces produce spice which needs transported by caravan to the matching suit Crown. Caravan routes are created by sequences of rank cards marked by suit tokens. You will also play cards to produce spice and use cards to determine how far your caravans can trade. At the end of your turn you will pay (high) taxes. Play continues until you are broke or all cards have been used. If you have any money left over you win and if you end with more money than you started you win outright.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
P.D. Magnus
United States
Albany
New York
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: Caraqvans of Jacynth - A Game for the Decktet
Some quick comments:

You don't actually say that it's a 1-player, solitaire game. The word "solitaire" only appears in the note at the end of the rules!

whistle Regarding the name of the game, there's already a Decktet game called "Caravan" and another called "Jacynth".

robot You are welcome to keep your work-in-progress rules on the Decktet Wiki.

cool It looks cool. I need to try this.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
P.D. Magnus
United States
Albany
New York
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: Caraqvans of Jacynth - A Game for the Decktet
After reading the rules more carefully, some more things:

When I make a delivery, which cards do I count when determining profit? My guess is the length of the route, but I'm not sure.

wow Aces and Crowns can't be orthogonally adjacent, but routes can be diagonal. So it seems like routes could just be two cards, Ace then Crown. Is that right?

laugh The rules gives an example of "6 Wyrm/Moon", but there's no such card.

The rules say, "Crowns are considered to have a rank of 15 for taxes." But the rules also say you lose if you don't get all the Crowns played onto the map, so discarding a Crown for taxes means certain loss.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jack Neal
United States
Liverpool
New York
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
Re: Caraqvans of Jacynth - A Game for the Decktet
Thanks for taking a look! I was hoping you would.

I have been struggling on a name and I pulled the two of those names together - I love the game Jacynth and this has caravans so it seemed a natural fit at least for a work in progress so it'll have a more suitable name after I play it some more. I'm open to suggestions.

As for the game itself, you are correct in that it is possible to have a delivery of 2 cards; I had very recently removed that from the scoring section and it needs to be put back. I believe it was for 4 pts as it was the beginning of the sequence.

as for the end game Crowns, you need to have either the Ace or the Crown of each suit on the tableaux. The intent behind this rule was to make sure one suit wasn't favored to the exclusion of five other ones.

I will port to the Decktet wiki this morning.

Thanks again!

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jack Neal
United States
Liverpool
New York
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
Game and thread renamed to Quetinny.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jack Neal
United States
Liverpool
New York
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
Dual crosspost to http://wiki.decktet.com/game:quetinny


Thanks!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kenny VenOsdel
United States
Saint Paul
Minnesota
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
In the wiki post you reference a diagram that does not exist. Any change to add this diagram or change the example to not need it?

Additionally I find this confusing, perhaps in play it would make more sense:
Quote:
Pay Your Taxes: Finally, taxes are deducted at the end of each turn. You must play a card to pay them. The gold you owe is the rank of the card minus the number of suit chips for each suit on the card in play. Crowns are considered to have a rank of 15 for taxes. You may not receive gold from a tax but it is possible to not pay any tax at all.


So the maximum discount is 2 correct? (since there is only one chip of each suit). Also, can aces be taxed? Are they a 1?

Perhaps it would be worded better as:
Pay Your Taxes: Finally, taxes are deducted at the end of each turn. Choose one card in your hand, the amount taxed is equal to that card's rank with crowns having a rank of 15 for tax purposes. For any suit chips in play that match the taxed card you receive a discount of 1, up to a maximum of 2. You may not receive gold from a tax but it is possible to not pay any tax at all.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kenny VenOsdel
United States
Saint Paul
Minnesota
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
pmagnus wrote:
After reading the rules more carefully, some more things:

:what: When I make a delivery, which cards do I count when determining profit? My guess is the length of the route, but I'm not sure.


now answered in the wiki. The originating ace, any cards "crossed," and the ending crown are the length of the route.

Quote:
:wow: Aces and Crowns can't be orthogonally adjacent, but routes can be diagonal. So it seems like routes could just be two cards, Ace then Crown. Is that right?


Now answered in the wiki. 2 length diagonal routes are acceptable.

Quote:

:p The rules say, "Crowns are considered to have a rank of 15 for taxes." But the rules also say you lose if you don't get all the Crowns played onto the map, so discarding a Crown for taxes means certain loss.



I'm curious about this as well.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jack Neal
United States
Liverpool
New York
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
Out and about at the moment but to clarify - each suit must have an Ace or a Crown in the tableaux to avoid losing - not exclusively Crowns. I think I had it bolded in earlier drafts because it can be overlooked.

Aces cost $1. I will fix that when I get back in.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kenny VenOsdel
United States
Saint Paul
Minnesota
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Raiderjakk wrote:
Out and about at the moment but to clarify - each suit must have an Ace or a Crown in the tableaux to avoid losing - not exclusively Crowns. I think I had it bolded in earlier drafts because it can be overlooked.

Aces cost $1. I will fix that when I get back in.


So then, as PD pointed out, there is no utility in making a Crown or Ace have a tax value, as it is already a loss.

Also, reading through the rules I can't understand what the suit chips do. The rule is clear about placing them but it doesn't clarify what use they are.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jack Neal
United States
Liverpool
New York
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
The suit chips are used to mark the route between the Ace and the Crown and represent the physical route itself.

Quote:
So then, as PD pointed out, there is no utility in making a Crown or Ace have a tax value, as it is already a loss.


As for the Crown taxation I'm think I'm a little confused.

Naturally, ideally you would want all the Crowns and Aces on the board scoring points, but the structure of the deck and the luck of the draw prohibits that.

True, there is no positive value whatsoever in dumping a Crown and putting either of these cards in the discard is always tough. However, there are times when you may need to do so and there are no restrictions on placing them on the tableaux at any time. It can be mitigated but it isn't an easy choice.

I would be open to saying four or five of the Ace/Crown combinations must be on the board - or even getting rid of that requirement entirely. My main aim was making sure that one suit could be pursued and ignore the others. I could also make the payout for deliveries higher or set the starting gold higher. But I think there should be an automatic loss condition and that it is factored in the background of any decisions made in the game.

Flipped the other way I suppose Crowns could count for immediate income when taxed which would give another dynamic as well. Do I take the money or do I make it so I can complete a route?

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jack Neal
United States
Liverpool
New York
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
The other thing I just noticed on the Wiki is that I took out the general flow of the game part which answers questions about the caravans and other terminology. I didn't think I needed it as I was following the template of the other games. I am adding that now.

The missing text is:

Quote:
A tableaux of cards is built that represents the provinces in the kingdom. Aces produce spice which needs transported by caravan to the matching suit Crown. Caravan routes are created by sequences of rank cards marked by suit tokens. You will also play cards to produce spice and use cards to determine how far your caravans can trade. At the end of your turn you will pay (high) taxes. Play continues until you are broke or all cards have been used. If you have any money left over you win and if you end with more money than you started you win outright.


The missing image from the wiki is (follow for larger size):




I need to figure out how to put images in the body of the Wiki as that will make things a little easier too. I was working with the Google docs version of the rules as it is easier to modify than the Wiki page.


Thanks!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kenny VenOsdel
United States
Saint Paul
Minnesota
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Raiderjakk wrote:
The suit chips are used to mark the route between the Ace and the Crown and represent the physical route itself.

Quote:
So then, as PD pointed out, there is no utility in making a Crown or Ace have a tax value, as it is already a loss.


As for the Crown taxation I'm think I'm a little confused.

Naturally, ideally you would want all the Crowns and Aces on the board scoring points, but the structure of the deck and the luck of the draw prohibits that.

True, there is no positive value whatsoever in dumping a Crown and putting either of these cards in the discard is always tough. However, there are times when you may need to do so and there are no restrictions on placing them on the tableaux at any time. It can be mitigated but it isn't an easy choice.

I would be open to saying four or five of the Ace/Crown combinations must be on the board - or even getting rid of that requirement entirely. My main aim was making sure that one suit could be pursued and ignore the others. I could also make the payout for deliveries higher or set the starting gold higher. But I think there should be an automatic loss condition and that it is factored in the background of any decisions made in the game.

Flipped the other way I suppose Crowns could count for immediate income when taxed which would give another dynamic as well. Do I take the money or do I make it so I can complete a route?



As is the auto-loss condition doesn't work with Crowns and Aces being used for anything else. If there are times when you want to discard them or use them as taxes those are auto-loss choices, it can't be a choice because you would never do that.

Perhaps one way you could do it is make a player pay in for aces and crowns that aren't on the board at the end of the game. It could be a set amount for a missing Ace, a higher amount for a missing Ace and Crown, and for a missing Crown only you lose something like half the route length times the number of spice on the matching ace.

Following something like that you could always choose to get rid of an ace or crown if it seems necessary, but must beware of the possible penalties. It also creates an interesting tension of wanting to put spice out on an ace when the crown isn't played yet (that is, if it is possible to be forced to discard a crown).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kenny VenOsdel
United States
Saint Paul
Minnesota
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Raiderjakk wrote:
The suit chips are used to mark the route between the Ace and the Crown and represent the physical route itself.


Ah, so then a route doesn't technically exist until a suit chip is placed to declare it as a route. So for a savy player with no trouble tracking info it could be left off entirely.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jack Neal
United States
Liverpool
New York
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
kvenosdel wrote:
Raiderjakk wrote:
The suit chips are used to mark the route between the Ace and the Crown and represent the physical route itself.


Ah, so then a route doesn't technically exist until a suit chip is placed to declare it as a route. So for a savy player with no trouble tracking info it could be left off entirely.



Correct. The discard pile is open which would make things slightly easier.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jack Neal
United States
Liverpool
New York
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
Quote:
Perhaps one way you could do it is make a player pay in for aces and crowns that aren't on the board at the end of the game. It could be a set amount for a missing Ace, a higher amount for a missing Ace and Crown, and for a missing Crown only you lose something like half the route length times the number of spice on the matching ace.


I like those ideas. I can nix the auto loss and open things up.

How about using the income chart for leftover Aces and Crowns at the end of the game? This would allow up to 4 cards to reasonably discard before the penalty would be too severe.

I also like the idea of earning gold for discarding a Crown. It needs to be high enough to be a viable option. I think coupled with the penalty at the end of the game would make for more interesting decisions. It would kill future revenue with quick money now.

Adding 1 pt per suit chip at game end would help cushion things as well.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jack Neal
United States
Liverpool
New York
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
And thank you for your thoughtful feedback. It is much appreciated.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jack Neal
United States
Liverpool
New York
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
Further experimentation in creating a more humane game.

If an Ace is discarded you receive 1 gold for every Ace on the tableaux. If a Crown is discarded you receive 1 gold for every suit token on the board.

Aces and Crowns cost 3 gold each at the end of the game.


Edit: Switched income and payout to 3/6 for discarded ace and Crowns. Ace gives 3 per spice on board and Crown gives 3 per Ace or Crown on board. Discarded Aces and Crowns cost 6.

I think this will go down to 2 income instead of 3.

Also considering rule that Aces and Crowns do not generate income on last hand. Not sure.

I am also thinking the extended deck may be needed for more options. Not sure about this either as I really want to keep things with the base deck.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jack Neal
United States
Liverpool
New York
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
Stiiillllllllll tinkering.

Expanded deck might be required. Its looking good though. More later.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jack Neal
United States
Liverpool
New York
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
Latest changes on Google Docs:

- Simplified taxes to just the rank of the card. - Removed end notes.
- Removed tax penalty for Aces and Crowns.
- Added end game penalties for unranked cards. - - Extended deck is now required.
- Simplified set up language.

Quite pleased.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.