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Commands & Colors: Ancients» Forums » Rules

Subject: Interpreting GMT Reference Sheet, Front Page rss

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Alex N
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My opponent and I came across a situation that caused us to scratch our heads when we turned to GMT's Reference Sheet for an answer.

The situation was this. Romans led by a Medium Infantry unit moved into Close Combat against a Carthaginian Leader attached to a Heavy Infantry unit. The Romans rolled 4 dice, two greens and two swords. The two swords eliminated two Heavy Infantry blocks. So far so good.

Now we both believed the Romans could next roll two dice to see if the Carthaginian Leader could be picked off since his unit suffered casualties. According to the bottom row of the 2nd chart on Page 1 (CLOSE COMBAT), that doesn't seem to be the case. The 5th column under the Sword symbol shows a dash in the very bottom row for Leaders attached to units.

Does this mean that when only swords (and Leaders) symbols are thrown there is NO Leader check, even though blocks may be eliminated?

Thanks.

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Randy Smith
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If you look at Section 14 of the rules concerning leader casualty checks, it states a leader casualty check is made if a unit with a leader takes hits. There is no statement concerning HOW the hits are made.

Looking at the reference card it looks as if the dash in the sword column should probably be a Note 2.

But the other reference cards for the different expansions are marked the same way. Just a dash under the sword and helmet columns.
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Matt G
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I agree that the rules state any loss of blocks in Close Combat will result in a leader casualty check. The sword column on the chart will cause difficulties written with or without Note 2 since some light units to not inflict block losses with swords.
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Randy Smith
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MattG wrote:
The sword column on the chart will cause difficulties written with or without Note 2 since some light units to not inflict block losses with swords.


Good catch. I missed that.
 
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Kent Reuber
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chiefsachem wrote:
The situation was this. Romans led by a Medium Infantry unit moved into Close Combat against a Carthaginian Leader attached to a Heavy Infantry unit. The Romans rolled 4 dice, two greens and two swords. The two swords eliminated two Heavy Infantry blocks. So far so good.

Now we both believed the Romans could next roll two dice to see if the could Carthaginian Leader could be picked off since his unit suffered casualties.


Two dice are rolled if some of the attached leader's unit survives. If they are all killed, you roll only 1 die; the leader is killed on a leader symbol.
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Alex N
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Let me repeat my question once again.

Why the "dash" instead of "Note 2" on the first page of the Reference Sheet? The only conclusion we can reach so far is that there is NO leader check when ONLY swords and leaders are rolled AND at least one block is eliminated from the defender.

It's hard to believe that after all these years and expansions, that this could be a misprint on the reference sheet.


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Matt G
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I concede it's either an ambiguity or an oversight and you can play however you wish but the rule book clearly states otherwise:

14. Leaders (page 18)

Attached Leaders: When a leader is attached to a unit and the unit loses one or more blocks without being eliminated, there is a chance the leader may also be hit. Make a leader casualty check by rolling 2 battle dice....


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Randy Smith
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chiefsachem wrote:
Let me repeat my question once again.

Why the "dash" instead of "Note 2" on the first page of the Reference Sheet? The only conclusion we can reach so far is that there is NO leader check when ONLY swords and leaders are rolled AND at least one block is eliminated from the defender.

It's hard to believe that after all these years and expansions, that this could be a misprint on the reference sheet.


Like was said in an earlier post, swords do not always cause a hit. Perhaps the dash is so there is not an assumption that just because swords are rolled there will automatically be a leader hit check.

Don't overthink it.

I can ask Richard Borg when I see him at GenCon.
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Russell InGA
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Ignore the Front Page. It is just about useless.

gulpyuksoblue
 
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Guillaume Gleize
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Yop sometimes charts are unclear or contain mistakes.

But the forums plus the thousand battles allready played and commented made us all find the official answer and create our own charts witch says:

ROLL 2 DICE!

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