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Subject: Kamperduin 44 guns ship counter mistake? rss

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Frederic Delstanches
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I was wondering if the 44 gun frigate in the Dutch line (Mars) has the correct relative rates both front and back (second printing 2010)?? The 44 gun Dutch Argo from Ship of the Line is a 5th rate reduced to 6th, the Mars counter shows a 3rd (!) rate reduced to 5th (?)...Shouldn't the Mars also be a 5th/6th?
I decided to use the Argo for Camperdown for now...
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Mike Nagel
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Fred,

It's been a while, but as I recall, the Mars was a very over-gunned frigate. So although it only carries 44 guns, they're really, really big guns ... ;-)

Remember that rate is relative to the weight of lead thrown, not the actual number of guns (which would be the real rate).

HTH
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Frederic Delstanches
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Thank you for your reply*! Great game by the way and I am waiting for my P500 of Blue Cross, White Ensign to ship, hopefully soon...

*I am still unsure why a 3rd relative rate would be reduced to a 5th on it's damaged side by 8 hill hits though...
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Mike Nagel
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Fred,

To distinguish ship sizes and capabilities, we play a little fast-and-loose when flipping ships over to their back sides and adjusting relative rates accordingly. Essentially, the Mars would be 4 points away from a rate drop when flipping over. Since it would only drop at 6 points, it makes the Mars a little tougher than it should be, so we advance the damage a bit.
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Frederic Delstanches
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Thanks for the answers Mike!
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Niek van Diepen
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Mike is right, the Dutch Mars carried very big guns. It's a 'razee', laid down as a 64 gun ship, but never completed as such. Instead the ship was finished with a single gun deck and fitted out with 26 30-pounder guns as her main armament (equivalent to British 32-pounder guns, since the Amsterdam pound was heavier). The other 18 guns were also quite heavy for 'secondary' armament: 18-pounders, for a broadside weight of 602 (British) pounds. A British 64 comes in at 575 pounds per broadside. Mars could have been a 'white 4' rather than a 'black 3', but the heavy guns gave her the nudge.

The Argo at Doggersbank is a proper frigate.

Note also that all the Dutch 64s were upgunned at Camperdown.Some quite effectively by changing te 24-pounders on the Lower deck to 30-pounders (the 'normal 3' ships), others by adding four 8-pounders, upping their official rate to 68, but keeping the relative rate at 'black 3'. Hence the Dutch 64s fire more effectively than the 68s.
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Frederic Delstanches
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Awesome historical insight. I actually looked online for information on the Mars gun arrangement but could find nothing out of English or French sources (mijn nederlands is niet zeer goed anymore as you can tell). I looked before posting because I suspected an upgunned razee but could not confirm it.
Thanks again!
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