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Subject: Making a Collectible card game rss

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David Slater
United States
Washington
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Hello new to this site, but have long been a reader of alot your reviews on games.

Me and my older brother are making a card game, fantasy based but we are stuck on how to Spawn/Summon cards from your hand to the battle area or better yet what method to use to generate a mana or command point to put them in play.

-My idea was both players roll initiative and add those amounts together and that is the Mana pool for both sides. my brothers argument is he doesn't want player A to have an advantage over player B, if player A has a real good card, player A can summon it and possibly win the game quicker as appose to if player B has weaker cards to begin with.

-other Ideas we've floated around was the Mage knight way, wish the different Dice, resembling different Factions/Mana required for each creature.

-Burning cards to make your Mana pool.

-making a track or placing cards in front of you face down and sliding them down a spot each turn depending on their count down (creature A takes 3 turns to come out so he is in spot 3 and moves down each turn till the last turn in which he is summoned) afraid of cheating so we have kind of been up in the air with that one.

also the possibility of the just mentioned example, but maybe the cards face up and put on a 'track' like the before mentioned example.

one more and i promise this will be it. haha

it is going to be a collectible card game so something i was thinking of

ex. you have 30 cards, you set 20 aside and that is your mana pool for the battle, 10 cards being your summoner deck/hand for the battle. not sure if the mana pool would reset or just stay at 20 for the whole battle (ex. you have 10 mana and use a 1 mana cost card, don't know if it would go back up to 10 next turn or stay at 9 for the mana used)


these aren't the only options i am open to, if you know of anymore let me know, it'd be much appreciated. I hope to get some good input from you all, thank you and have a good weekend.

I am really sorry if this post isn't in the right spot, if it isn't appropriate for the site, just figured this would work.
 
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Joseph Schmoll
United States
Raleigh
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Hi there and welcome.

Quick question, did you want this system to have a sort of risk/reward or strategic decision that players must make?

Or did you want it to be balanced and just set, making it "fair" for both sides?

How variable did you want it to be?
 
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Matt Brown
United States
Okemos
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bruiser89171 wrote:
-My idea was both players roll initiative and add those amounts together and that is the Mana pool for both sides. my brothers argument is he doesn't want player A to have an advantage over player B, if player A has a real good card, player A can summon it and possibly win the game quicker as appose to if player B has weaker cards to begin with.


1. Don't make a CCG. Just don't. Why? Games are hard enough to get off the ground. The ones that are CCGs and have stuck around can be counted on one hand: Magic, Pokemon, Yu Gi Oh, and Legends of the Five Rings and that's essentially it. L5R tends to be below the radar so you are more or less looking at three CCGs to stand the test of time and really stand out.

2. If the initial draw of your cards is that important, then it is a bad game. Period.

3. I personally would start off with the options of having at least a decent amount of "mana" to start to the game, four maybe, so the start isn't so much of a slow build. CCGs tend to have this issue with them. Even a set regen mana per turn would be nice and give the players options to increase that regen.

Personally I would study Android: Netrunner, Mage Wars, some CDG waragames, along with Race of the Galaxy and Glory to Rome for countless plays before I would even remotely begin to design a card game. It honestly wouldn't hurt to add in deck builders as well.
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David Slater
United States
Washington
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We're wanting it to be fair, so that either side doesn't have a huge advantage. my argument for the initiative die roll is that if player A wants to play 1 real good monster and player B ends up playing a bunch of semi good/mediocre cards it could be somewhat balanced, could be the whole quantity over quality debate.

Thank you Joseph again, happy for any input

and thank you Matt for your input, definitely noted.
 
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Joseph Schmoll
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bruiser89171 wrote:
We're wanting it to be fair, so that either side doesn't have a huge advantage. my argument for the initiative die roll is that if player A wants to play 1 real good monster and player B ends up playing a bunch of semi good/mediocre cards it could be somewhat balanced, could be the whole quantity over quality debate.

Thank you Joseph again, happy for any input

and thank you Matt for your input, definitely noted.


Something to think about may be a system that automatically provides a set amount of mana per turn/round/whatever. And then as the game progresses, this number can increase, but remains the same for each player. I don't know if you would have them save what mana they didn't cast, as I don't really understand how your game functions.

A recent CCG that used a similar system was actually the My Little Pony CCG, so maybe check that out or something like that.

I would actually agree with Matt about the CCG vs. LCG, but I think if you cared about that opinion, you'd have asked for it.

Either way, hope that helps.
 
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Matt Brown
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bruiser89171 wrote:
We're wanting it to be fair, so that either side doesn't have a huge advantage. my argument for the initiative die roll is that if player A wants to play 1 real good monster and player B ends up playing a bunch of semi good/mediocre cards it could be somewhat balanced, could be the whole quantity over quality debate.

Thank you Joseph again, happy for any input

and thank you Matt for your input, definitely noted.


Again, LCGs and not CCGs tend to be a better resources as to how to start a player's turn in round 1. Take Netrunner or The Star Wars LCG. A player feels like they have options from the start versus playing 1 mana and being generally limited to playing something with one mana cost or waiting. I don't think one bigger card versus a couple smaller cards would be a bad thing although I think for the first turn it should be a medium sized card versus two smaller ones at most. I'm in favor of playing 2-3 cards to start. Case in point, Netrunner. Play an agenda and an ice to protect it.
 
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Adam Stapley
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A lot of people jump straight to the "don't make a CCG" conclusion and share it without much explanation, or explanation such as "you're not Magic, get out."

While I agree, designers should stray away from the CCG model, I like to share the following reasoning

The CCG model is based entirely upon certain cards being better. Ultra-mega-uber rares will be better than commons. That's how the game develops itself in its model. If all of the ultra rares were trash and players had 14 copies of the best card in the game because it was common, the desire to buy more packs would quickly fall. From a designer standpoint, this causes issues.

You'll be developing hundreds of cards with the sole intent of THEM NOT BEING USED. You make certain prototype cards, and then add several different attributes to that prototype, making some worse and some better. Then you design further copies that get better, stronger, more defensive. Soon you've had power creep begin, and it's too late to slow it down. Again, that hunt for those best cards are what is driving your game. As a designer, 75% of your effort is going to cards that will not be used, and you know this.

Additionally, the cost of art on a CCG is literally ridiculous.
 
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Adam Stapley
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oops, double post
 
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