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Unconditional Surrender! World War 2 in Europe» Forums » Rules

Subject: Rules - not seeing something rss

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Brian Hansen
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The game design seems brilliant. I just got hung up on two points that make me feel like I am missing something.

A. Factories: In 32.6.4 Germany 1945: Soviet Factory count = 25?! I see the 15 on board factories; but aren't all faction's extra factories limited to 9? That is 24, what gets it to 25?

B. Diplomacy: Implied via 14.12: The West can place pro-West counters on Spain, Belgium, Italy, Greece, Iraq? Correct? If so this confuses me.

- the West can place in Iraq but Germany can not? This was a source of concern for the Commonwealth - now it is not?
- Germany can place in Yugoslavia but (initially in '39) no one else can? The Axis essentially invaded to "remove a pro-soviet counter."

Before I introduce it to my game group, I want to get it right. Diplomacy feels counter to the goal of open alliances, as if diplomatic focus is locked on Italy as Yugoslavia is off the table, the West can be relatively carefree about Spain, about Iraq, etc. Is this a valid take?



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Erwin Lau
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Try my best to answer before the real experts chime in:

A. Factories: Maybe it is just a shorthand. A more accurate presentation may be 15(on-board) - 6 (Factories Lost) + 9 (Ural) + 7 (Lend-Lease)

B. Diplomacy: Yes, Pro-Western markers can be placed in those countries.

- Iraq. This might happen when the UK pulled Political Failure marker from the cup.

- Yugoslavia. I cannot explain. A vague historical drama in 1941 might be Greece became an active Western country while Yugoslavia was still neutral-neutral or pro-western, but not pro-soviet.

The way I play it, Italy and Turkey are key countries in the political wrestling. Spain, Sweden, Romania, Finland and Hungary are less so.
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Marc Hanna
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Yes, I think Erwin has it right, the political failure marker results in the exceptions of Yugoslavia and Iraq in the 1939 conditions. Same for Spain as axis partner (but remember the conquered country provisions for placing pro marker, as well -- can't be too complacent) Note that a political event of success does allow for any pro-faction country to activate, not just those adjacent, so a lot can happen.

Marc
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Salvatore Vasta
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Marc and Erwin did a good job of answering the questions.

The Political Failure marker is the marker that puts almost every country on the map in danger of leaning toward the enemy, depending on who drew it.

Yugoslavia (or Iraq) could also be represented by a DoW by the Axis (or Western) faction for other game purposes. The historical causi belli being the related coups that occurred in those locations, but for which the game does not specifically represent. Conquering Yugoslavia opens another pathway to a Western Greece, increases Germany Will, puts a Pro-Axis marker in the Diplomacy Cup, and prevents it from going Allied. Iraq, coupled with Syria, opens another supply line to Egypt and removes the possibility of those countries going Axis.

Sal
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Brian Hansen
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Thanks all.
Understand I have to sell the game to my group before I get to play it, so I'm limited to - just reading, until then.

Factories: I missed that lend lease is cummulative (not additive) with Ural factories.

Diplomacy: I missed that political failure puts all neutral countries in play. In my defense, there are 2-3 concepts that one needs to mentally put together as one reads in order to visualize this. Pol-Failure puts a new spin on the diplomacy, there are not the Allied "safe areas" I imagined.
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Brian Hansen
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I don't want to start another thread if possible. Have another question:

Is Sardinia an island? In other words does the straights hex side make it - not an island. (Part of the definition of an island is that it is surrounded by all sea hex sides.)
 
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Salvatore Vasta
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craterous wrote:
I don't want to start another thread if possible. Have another question:

Is Sardinia an island? In other words does the straights hex side make it - not an island. (Part of the definition of an island is that it is surrounded by all sea hex sides.)


It is an island. The strait doesn't change the fact that the hexside is all water. It simply means a ground unit can cross it using ground movement, using ferries, etc.
 
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Brian Hansen
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More:
1. Can bombers with low-supply do a bombing run? If so at what range?

2. Carrier strikes are described as tracing paths of any length (London to Beirut then!?) Or should I read that - 5 (supplied) naval movement points to the destination and 5 movement points back?

3. Can a fighter unit in Trieste (sea zone 23) intercept an invasion from sea zone 24 into Brindisi? (In other words Brindisi is a port on both sea zones 23 and 24 - does this mutual port allow this interception of this invasion?)
 
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Salvatore Vasta
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craterous wrote:
More:
1. Can bombers with low-supply do a bombing run? If so at what range?


Yes, just like a fighter can do an Air Strike, etc. Range (as opposed to movement points) is not affected by Supply State. A Low Supply bomber would suffer a negative DRM if it was intercepted.

Quote:
2. Carrier strikes are described as tracing paths of any length (London to Beirut then!?) Or should I read that - 5 (supplied) naval movement points to the destination and 5 movement points back?


Any length means ignore movement points.

Quote:
3. Can a fighter unit in Trieste (sea zone 23) intercept an invasion from sea zone 24 into Brindisi? (In other words Brindisi is a port on both sea zones 23 and 24 - does this mutual port allow this interception of this invasion?)


This is similar to a question posed in another post.

The answer is no for several reasons.

Per 6.2.5.2, a fighter can intercept into an Amphibious Invasion hex if it is within a 5-hex range, and in this case it is too far.

As for the port being in the both Sea Zones at the same time, interception within a Sea Zone occurs within that SZ, not a specific hex of that SZ, and the intercepting air unit must be in the same SZ as the movement trace. In this case, the naval unit movement path trace is in SZ 24, but the air unit is in SZ 23.

So in order for an air unit to intercept a movement path trace within SZ 24, the air unit must also be in SZ 24. It does not matter how near the air unit is to SZ 24 (e.g. one hex NE of Brindisi). If not in that SZ, it can't intercept into it.

Sal
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Brian Hansen
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Sal, thanks so much for your attention/answers.

Three of us are doing '41-'45; while two others watch. The game design is indeed brilliant. Simple mechanics that can capture the realism of a simulation; and preserve key decision/strategy options is quite an achievement. (I've designed one game.)

In a future rules revision I think question 3 would be instructive as a play-situation example. (But of course - this is just my opinion.)
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Salvatore Vasta
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craterous wrote:
Sal, thanks so much for your attention/answers.

Three of us are doing '41-'45; while two others watch. The game design is indeed brilliant. Simple mechanics that can capture the realism of a simulation; and preserve key decision/strategy options is quite an achievement. (I've designed one game.)

In a future rules revision I think question 3 would be instructive as a play-situation example. (But of course - this is just my opinion.)


Thanks, Brian. I hope your group has fun the whole way through and in more games to come.

Which game did you design?

Question 3 will be part of the next Errata-Questions file release.
 
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