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Subject: Fate die recipes on blue treasures rss

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Rebecca
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On the blue treasure cards, the fate die recipes have two symbols. Does this mean that you need to roll both die to get the recipe, or does either one work?
 
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Trevor Schadt
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ClayMask wrote:
On the blue treasure cards, the fate die recipes have two symbols. Does this mean that you need to roll both die to get the recipe, or does either one work?
Both. Yes, this means that if you're only rolling one FD, that recipe will not be possible.
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Rebecca
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Thanks. That's what I thought. To me this makes the fate die recipes on the blue seem worse than the green ones, though, since it's so much harder to roll the combination than roll the single die required. Even if the blue card gives a fate die more than the green one, it's still much harder to roll.
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Jarad Bond
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ClayMask wrote:
Thanks. That's what I thought. To me this makes the fate die recipes on the blue seem worse than the green ones, though, since it's so much harder to roll the combination than roll the single die required. Even if the blue card gives a fate die more than the green one, it's still much harder to roll.

That would be correct - and I usually only get one green FD recipe completed in an entire 2 hours session anyway, so the blues are entirely anti-climactic for me.
 
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Mathue Faulkner
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It all depends on how many FD the Hero is rolling (obviously). I hit the Umbral Blade recipe at least 4 or 5 times in a session, but that's because the weapon itself gives 3 FD. If I'm really pulling for the bonus, I'll equip my Mythical Cloak which gives another FD, and then I'm rolling 5 FD.

Bulwark is a weird one because it gives you +2 FD, but there isn't a recipe on the card.

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Bruce Powell
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ClayMask wrote:
Thanks. That's what I thought. To me this makes the fate die recipes on the blue seem worse than the green ones, though, since it's so much harder to roll the combination than roll the single die required. Even if the blue card gives a fate die more than the green one, it's still much harder to roll.


Honestly with my priest I end up with 8+ fate die, so I get the recipes fairly often. Additionally some gear will let you "set" a fate die roll once per turn, very convenient.
 
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Rebecca
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Really? Eight fate die?

I only know of one piece that will allow the setting of fate die; the mantle of fate, and a different player had that. When I played this weekend I had a great set of gear, but the only fate die were from my armor and offhand, or bonuses from cards. That meant if the card didn't give a bonus I had two, using the green that I had chosen over the blue offhand (Dark Crystal over Shield of Light). The other pieces didn't have fate die, but did have other cool bonuses.

Edit: I was using an acolyte. I chose the Dark Crystal over the Shield of Light since the fate die recipe on the shield was pretty much useless anyway and hard for me to roll. It also had one less d10 than the Dark Crystal did.
 
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Charlie Theel
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With the Brigan you can easily roll 5+ fate die as well.
 
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Bruce Powell
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The mantle of fate has it (also one reason I had so many fate die), but there is a green that allows it as well. Cannot remember which green, but I know it exists.

I also do tend to get fate from card bonuses as an Acolyte.

Shield of Light is one of my other "kept" pieces of gear, actually. Combined with mantle of fate it's not hard to roll, and all the faith it can give you is amazing when you use your aoe.
 
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Rebecca
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We were thinking that with Shield of Light, the pray wouldn't apply to your aoe, since you have to hit with it before your fate die apply. We asked on the forum to be sure, and the only person that responded said he didn't think it would apply since you already had to hit with the attack. http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/1173698/shield-of-light
 
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Jarad Bond
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Yeah, you'd need to "prep" for your AoE by casting something else that was an interrupt or reaction. It could be done, but would be pretty tricky.

You could see where gaining the pray effect would be really wonky - say you had 2 faith, rolled to hit and got one success. Then applied FD and made the recipe, which gave you another faith, adding a new target type. Then re-evaluate your attack? The order of operations in the rules specifically precludes that - your attack is done by the time you get your recipe.

You could house rule it to use one of your other "unspent" from the original attack pool, though.
 
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Bruce Powell
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Yeah, have to prep and use a different attack first.
 
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Rebecca
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I can't think of any basic reactions or interrupts that you could use to allow you to use the shield to set up for a Last Rites, and you can only do one action per turn. Can you please tell me what cards you are using to set up for Last Rites or other attacks? Obviously, they could always add them in the future.
 
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Jarad Bond
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ClayMask wrote:
I can't think of any basic reactions or interrupts that you could use to allow you to use the shield to set up for a Last Rites, and you can only do one action per turn. Can you please tell me what cards you are using to set up for Last Rites or other attacks? Obviously, they could always add them in the future.

Yeah, I can't think of any either, at the moment. It is probably only potentially useful in the future.
 
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Rolfe Bergstrom
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ClayMask wrote:
We were thinking that with Shield of Light, the pray wouldn't apply to your aoe, since you have to hit with it before your fate die apply. We asked on the forum to be sure, and the only person that responded said he didn't think it would apply since you already had to hit with the attack. http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/1173698/shield-of-light


I would argue that the Pray effect on the Shield of Light DOES impact your current attack. This is all a matter of opinion (nothing official I can point to that addresses this directly) but I feel there are some tangential precedents established in other cards.

Compare it to Blackwood Bow. That weapon has a recipe that says "Hit next target in line 1 square away." That certainly modifies the current attack by expanding the number of targets being hit. Seems to me that increases the number of valid targets after the d10s have been rolled. (I realize it's technically different than what a retroactive Pray would do, but it at least establishes that FD recipes can result in targets taking damage that weren't in the original effect zone.)


EDIT: I think I made the case better in the other thread, so I'm quoting myself here:

R_b_bergstrom wrote:
I'm of the opinion it would retroactively alter the attack. There are plenty of item cards whose Fate Recipes modify the attack or action that was just rolled. Demonbane retroactively stops you from actually canceling the ongoing effects you cancelled to pick additional targets or increase damage. Dagger retroactively prevents you from leaving the shadows when your successful attack would otherwise break shadows. Blackwood Bow hits the next monster in line even though they weren't your initial target. Etc.

Nothing in the rulebook states that Fate Die recipes happen _after_ the attacks (except in the specific context of Minion and Captain attacks). The FAQ does say they don't trigger if your attack misses entirely, but it makes no mention of timing on the recipes. None of these cards spend much verbiage on specifying _when_ they happen. Dagger is "stays in shadows" not "returns to shadows" or "retroactively never left shadows", vaguely implying that the resolution of the recipe happens at some point during the action, not after it.

One could argue (spuriously, or at least dubiously) that if the recipes didn't trigger until _after_ the card was resolved, even something as simple as the Mace (Rage: +2 damage to Lairs) wouldn't actually work because the damage had already been resolved. I don't think that's the case at all.
 
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