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Subject: Is "Come Steal Me" ("Never Install" even?) Jinteki a thing? rss

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linoleum blownaparte
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I feel like there's an interesting new archetype in the new Jinteki cards, but I'm just too newbish to see exactly how it works.

But basically it revolves around not trying to score agendas, instead letting the Runner steal them out of your centrals, and combo him to death on the next turn.

Cards that interact with this "steal me" strategy:

Jinteki PE obviously.

Shi.Kyu obviously.

Philotic Entanglement flatlines the runner after he steals enough one-pointers and Shi.Kyus?

Chairman Hiro is brain damage that turns into a scored agenda when trashed. This is a big drawback but feeds Punitive Counterstrike or Philotic Entanglement?

Medical Breakthrough helps you even when it's in the Runner's score area.

But the card with the most potential (?)

Susanoo-No-Mikoto - what if you load up your Archives with Shi.Kyu and one-pointers then rez this to force the Runner into Archives? You either flatline the Runner with Shi.Kyu damage or set him up for the kill next turn, which can be achieved with Philotic or Punitive Counterstrike.

House Of Knives works perfectly in this deck because it becomes net damage no matter whether it's scored or stolen.

You Hokusai Grid and Tori Hanzo your centrals and say "come and get it!"

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Nushura
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But how do you kill him? If he steals them one by one in R&D you will never flatline him.

Similarly, someone with keyhole digs digs and digs until he finds 7 agenda points....then game is over as well.

You cannot base the whole strategy in a single ICE. What if your opponent Femme's Susanoo? Your hole protection idea goes down the flush.
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Richard Linnell
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While you can put together some good Jinteki damage decks now, it is probably not going to be possible to run a "never install" strategy. Never advance however, can be quite viable.

Quick note - I don't think that Chairman Hiro interacts with Punitive Counterstrike (and doesn't trigger JintekiE damage) since he is not stolen, he is placed in the score area just like Notoriety and Shi Kyu. They do, however, help with Philotic.

Of course, you are missing some of the big ones that work into the "steal me" strategy - SEA source/midseasons and Scorched Earth. Cerebral Casts is actually a good tagging solution in these decks, since most players would rather be tagged than take brain damage against Jinteki.
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Gregory Pettigrew
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Nushura wrote:
But how do you kill him? If he steals them one by one in R&D you will never flatline him.


Step 1. Put only 1-point Agendas in your deck.
Step 2. Put all your Agendas in Archives.
Step 3. Profit.
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Patrick Jamet
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Linoleumblownaparte wrote:
But basically it revolves around not trying to score agendas, instead letting the Runner steal them out of your centrals, and combo him to death on the next turn.

What happens if the runner never runs?
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Scott Forster
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Pyjam wrote:

What happens if the runner never runs?


a Netrunner koan
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g k
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When no runs are made
The corporation will deck
Much sad LOL
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Nate K
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Sad. I thought this would be a thread about the Replicating Perfection deck with Fetal AI, NAPD Contract, Medical Breakthrough, and The Future Perfect--agendas that you just don't care if the Runner accesses.
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Dawid Cichy
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Actually there's a way this one worked, but you have to add alternative method to win if Philotic Entanglement is stolen. If not, since it's only 1 PE in a deck, you lose it - you lost.

I once used Harmony Medtech witch 3 Biotic Labors. If PE was stolen you could still win by scoring 3x 3/2 agendas at your turn.
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Rob B
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I played an adv only game on OCTGN with a guy using this.

I was destroying everything all day up until that. Like 14/15 win-rate? He wrecked me so bad, on both of my current runner decks. Great player. Wish I remembered his player name.

Inc. things like Inazuma into Viktors or Ichis. Hold Neural EMPs in hand. Fetal AI and house of knives are MUST HAVES. Komainu (sp?) is fantastic in a pinch too.

I'm debating trying to fit in Net Sheild to deal with the dmg if this style becomes more popular. Deus X would work too, but since I'm not playing shaper it would be too difficult to pull it out of nowhere when it's really required.
 
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Come Steal Me? Sure
Never Install? I doubt it

I ran a pretty great house of knives built and ran up against one at the last tourney I went to a week ago. Including ice like Hive to score HoK, Tori Hanzo to up the ante and more than a few curveballs to keep the runner guessing. It is a withering fight but if you never run they just score 1 and 2 pointers to victory.

I lost my match up against HoK by 1 card in my deck, couldn't run archives to score notoriety without HoK killing me.
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Kaiwen Zhang
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add plan b and mushin no shin. runner will want to fish out agendas in hand before disarming the plan b.
 
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linoleum blownaparte
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Pyjam wrote:
Linoleumblownaparte wrote:
But basically it revolves around not trying to score agendas, instead letting the Runner steal them out of your centrals, and combo him to death on the next turn.

What happens if the runner never runs?


If the runner never runs on HQ can't you build a perfect hand for fast-advancing a Medical Breakthrough? Some kinda Biotic Labor enabled combo or something? Then once that's scored it's even easier to rebuild for another and another?

The way I see it:

Runner runs on remotes - can't, there are none

Runner runs on HQ or R&D - good if he steals Medical Breakthrough. All other agendas are not chosen for scoring but for their difficulty to steal (NAPD, Fetal AI, Future Perfect).

Runner runs on Archives - that's our primary win condition, we've been dumping Shi.Kyus and one-pointers into Archives all day long to power the payback flatline.

Runner doesn't run - build a combo hand for Medical Breakthrough while dumping the appropriate materials into Archives.

Still too janky??
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Daniel Wray
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I think the 'come steal me' style is possible. However, I think it works better with an 'always advance' plan and advancable traps. The NAPD, Fetal, Future Perfect agendas protect themsleves. I use Jinteki PE ID and Ronins as my primary kill condition, with TOL batteries to score agendas for the secondary option. A Mushin-advanced Fetal is a great play (I recently put a data mine in front of it). It will hurt the Runner significantly to run it, and is within easy score range to score out, plus has counters staged to use for a Ronin kill. I had a recent game where my Fetal served as a 1 cost EMP (when I scored it) combined with a single Ronin to flatline. Lots of versatility when combined with nasty advancable traps like Junebug and Cerebral Overwriter.

I have found Shi.Kyu works best in my Harmony deck making the runner have to steal 3 agendas to win vs. my 2. It's a great card but doesn't fit well in my Ronin kill deck. Multiples in archives is interesting but would take a lot of money to make more than one effective. Keep in mind that when facing the choice of losing versus a -1 agenda, you know which way the Runner will go. They can't be your primary kill condition. It means the Runner will need to steal more agendas, but you have purposely made that easy.
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Bryan Zimbardi
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Please understand - I am absolutely by no means an expert or even highly skilled player.

That being said, I can tell you my experience thus far.

I played a game on OCTGN against a "Never Install" deck, and was being pretty aggressive due to the lack of ice. I did not let off the gas soon enough and flatlined hard against R&D.

This made me very angry, so I tried to remake the deck as best I could.

I've now played 7 games with this deck on OCTGN. The deck has only one ICE, Komainu.

I won three games, and lost 4. It seems to me that taking my relatively low experience level into account, I am able to Flatline overly-eager runners 40% of the time in my limited sample. My assumption here is that they too were similarly inexperienced. Getting a couple EMPs in hand and laying traps only works until they hit the first one, then they get cautious.

I got beat twice with Keyhole, and once with several Infiltrations that exposed my installed ambushes.

In order to throw the runner off I tried to Komainu the traps to make it look as though I was protecting an Agenda. The first card I installed was a Fetal AI, and I scored it, so I was hoping the next install I set down would cause them to run. It was exposed and obviously failed.

After that, it was only a matter of time.

I also lost a game to Indexing in which they stole three agendas on the first turn. (Shuffle fail!)

Anyways, in my very small data set, it would seem that people who can't let off the run attack will have a hard time against snare, shock, SK, etc.

Those with more patience who were more apt to play Poker than War had little trouble molesting my deck, especially with Keyhole.

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Daniel Wray
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Quote:
Those with more patience who were more apt to play Poker than War had little trouble molesting my deck, especially with Keyhole.


I think the biggest issue was the lack of ICE because it is still needed to protect centrals. You should have an ICE plan, and it should be varied and painful. Komainu is a good card, but only a start. Expose hurts Jinteki, but is not autolose (there are counters, too. Psychic Field and Zaibatsu to start with).

Jinteki can be tough to play, but I think it now has the tools to really shine. IAA traps were not quite enough, but the possibility of Mushin-advance traps now have the bite to make naked servers quite a conundrum. Cerebral is 4 brain, Junebug is 8 net, Agg Sec will wipe your rig. On the other hand, it could be an agenda or GRNDL Factory (lolz). Even failed/exposed traps are great, because they give me secure TOL counters to use later. If a runner pops a trap and doesn't die, so now they become cautious - that's great, too. I will put together the Ronin kill or score out. You have to make it significantly dangerous to run and also very risky to hang back. Run hard or play it slow and careful - I have ways to win in either case. Most of the time I have both plans building at the same time.
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