Recommend
7 
 Thumb up
 Hide
40 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

Wargames» Forums » General

Subject: Strategy level WW2 rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Juhan Voolaid
Estonia
Tallinn
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
So, once again I come to you for some good advice. This time I thought my collection is missing a strategy level WW2 game.

What I would want from such game:
- something more serious than Axis and Allies. I have played it once and it felt like Risk to me. I am sure it has more depth in it, but it just didn't feel like a real wargame to me. I want more simulation.
- it still must be low complexity and fast play time :)
- low counter number. I don't want to have stacks and stacks of counters and also fast set up time helps.
- plays well 1v1 and multiplayer. 2 - 5 would be perfect, but 2 - 3 is ok too.
- it should be "new". Let me explain what I mean by that. I believe game design evolves over time and game systems done today are better than what they were 30 years ago. Second point is - it must be available for sale in shops. Not sold out.

What I have discovered so far are:
- The Supreme Commander - it looks like something I would want, but is it fun, accessible?
- Unconditional Surrender! World War 2 in Europe - it is a new hit right now. One scenario takes only 50 minutes, which is why I am considering it. But I have a feeling it is too heavy.

How would they compare? Any other recommendations?
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve Burt
United Kingdom
Cambridge
UK
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
Hitler's War would fit the bill.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mikkel B.
Denmark
flag msg tools
badge
mbmbmb
I'm in the same boat as you. Has narrowed it down to either USE or AE Totaler Krieg. Leaning towards AETK because of the cards, which I find an interesting idea which might help in those I-dont-know-what-to-do-situations.
Watching Calandales videos of USE to the end until I decide.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Forteza
Spain
ALCORCON
MADRID
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
+1 to Hitler's War

I own it. Fun to play. Quick. Fits the bill. You can find it very cheap in bgg market. I am also waiting for Unconditional Surrender! World War 2 in Europe. More meaty. Heck buy em both!!!!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Juhan Voolaid
Estonia
Tallinn
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Yeah, Hitler's War looks perfect, but I want new and pretty. These components seem dated and it must smell fresh :P

Also the block game Victory in Europe by Colombia games, that is being done by Kickstarter is good option, but it is not done yet.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jan van der Laan
Netherlands
Leeuwarden
Friesland
flag msg tools
badge
Als u begrijpt wat ik bedoel.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb

Sure, it's a block game but it captures the ETO on a strategical level quite well imho. Big map, lots of nice components (blocks and thick, big counters that is) and still available. Deep enough to dive in to but very accessible and relatively easy to learn (and play). The focus of EE is on land combat, air and naval units are abstracted but do play a significant role.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Juhan Voolaid
Estonia
Tallinn
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I was considering this, but the 700h game time scared me off a bit. I'll look more into it.

Ideally I would like the game to have scenarios to be played in 3-4 hours.

But what about Supreme Commander?
I am starting to feel that this video has already sold it to me:
http://boardgamegeek.com/video/40134/the-supreme-commander/r...

Looks a bit heavy, but so cool!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James Hamilton
United Kingdom
Stockport
Cheshire
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb

Victory in Europe?
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
DominiGeek
Dominican Republic
Santo Domingo
D.N.
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
I endorse USE, but you'll spend more than 50 minutes per game.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Muldoon (silentdibs)
United States
Astoria
New York
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Do you mean WW2? Or WW2 in Europe? Big difference.

If you can wait 12-18 months... Cataclysm: A Second World War.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Juhan Voolaid
Estonia
Tallinn
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
rubendario5 wrote:
I endorse USE, but you'll spend more than 50 minutes per game.

I told that 4h would be my target time limit. If you can recommend this game then do tell me about it. How it is playable in 4h time. The 5k minutes is crazy long.
sdiberar wrote:
Do you mean WW2? Or WW2 in Europe? Big difference.
If you can wait 12-18 months... Cataclysm: A Second World War.

The WW2 in Europe would be my main focus of interest, but if there is a game that captures whole war, I will take a look at it as well.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Salvatore Vasta
United States
Woodstock
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Jux_ wrote:
rubendario5 wrote:
I endorse USE, but you'll spend more than 50 minutes per game.

I told that 4h would be my target time limit. If you can recommend this game then do tell me about it. How it is playable in 4h time. The 5k hours is crazy long.
sdiberar wrote:
Do you mean WW2? Or WW2 in Europe? Big difference.
If you can wait 12-18 months... Cataclysm: A Second World War.

The WW2 in Europe would be my main focus of interest, but if there is a game that captures whole war, I will take a look at it as well.


Both SC and USE will take longer than 4 hours to play the whole war. I do not know about SC, but it is estimated that the whole war in USE takes 50 hours to play. It is not long because the game is very complicated(relative to other strategic WW2 games) or has tall stacks of counters to deal with. It is long because of its integrated movement/combat system (which Hitler's War also has) involves a lot more combat rolls than a traditional game.

If you want to play out the whole war in a night or two, USE is not the right game for you.

Good luck.

Sal
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kent Reuber
United States
San Mateo
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Hammy wrote:


This seems like a good choice. Plays with 2-3 players with a listed play time of 3 hours.

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Forteza
Spain
ALCORCON
MADRID
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Hitler's war can be new and pretty. In fact some bgger redesigned it completely and it is gorgeous. I prefer vintage games (maybe because I'm getting old )
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Enrico Viglino
United States
Eugene
OR
flag msg tools
Slowed - BGG's moderation policies have driven me partially from here
badge
http://thegamebox.byethost15.com/smf/
Avatar
mb
svasta wrote:
I do not know about SC, but it is estimated that the whole war in USE takes 50 hours to play.


I think it's an overestimate. Experienced players should be able to
get more than one turn in an hour.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jim F
United Kingdom
Birmingham
West Midlands
flag msg tools
Who knew trench warfare could be such fun?
badge
Ashwin in front of Tiger 131
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb

SC ticks along at the same rate as USE if Calandale's video series is a guide.

Still advertising for a vassal opponent for SC if anyone is in the WW2 Grand Strategy mood
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Muldoon (silentdibs)
United States
Astoria
New York
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
calandale wrote:
svasta wrote:
I do not know about SC, but it is estimated that the whole war in USE takes 50 hours to play.

I think it's an overestimate. Experienced players should be able to
get more than one turn in an hour.

You're going to disagree with the designer himself???

At 50 hours a pop for a game that just came out, how many experienced players are there?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew J
United Kingdom
Edinburgh
flag msg tools
Invicta
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
sdiberar wrote:
You're going to disagree with the designer himself???


Why not??? I disagree with most designers' estimates of game time.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Enrico Viglino
United States
Eugene
OR
flag msg tools
Slowed - BGG's moderation policies have driven me partially from here
badge
http://thegamebox.byethost15.com/smf/
Avatar
mb
myrmex wrote:
sdiberar wrote:
You're going to disagree with the designer himself???


Why not??? I disagree with most designers' estimates of game time.


What's odd here is that this one strikes me as an over-estimation.
Most games, I find myself on the other side.


sdiberar wrote:


At 50 hours a pop for a game that just came out, how many experienced players are there?


Fair enough. It may start taking longer the more you know about the game,
unlikely as that seems. I'm clocking in at about 1/2 hour a turn by my
estimation, without much experience. I'm sure once I start doing less
rule lookups, I'm assuming that it will actually decrease. And I'm suffering
from some AP with this as well.

I think that 50 hours is probably a high estimate. I'd guess more like 35
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Łukasz
Poland
Warsaw
flag msg tools
Non vi sed virtute, not armis sed arte paritur victoria.
badge
e^{i · π} + 1 = 0
Avatar
mb
Jux_ wrote:
Yeah, Hitler's War looks perfect, but I want new and pretty. These components seem dated and it must smell fresh :P


Problem with new games is that, usually companies nowadays cannot afford proper testing, proof-reading and development -- most of games which are published today are only half-baked and players need to wait for a few months for an errata to show up, living rules to be published and updated counters to be inserted in a magazine for which you then pay money to get a fully fledged product you should have had received before.

Older games, while graphic-wise their content may look a bit outdated, are everything but that: thoroughly tested over all years, always equipped with variants & optional rules which enrich the gameplay, with a solid fan base who are always helpful and ready to answer questions. With all the respect, who knows where the USE will end in 20 years from today. Hitler's War is still being played and enjoyed -- USE? I really don't know.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Enrico Viglino
United States
Eugene
OR
flag msg tools
Slowed - BGG's moderation policies have driven me partially from here
badge
http://thegamebox.byethost15.com/smf/
Avatar
mb
grouchysmurf wrote:
Jux_ wrote:
Yeah, Hitler's War looks perfect, but I want new and pretty. These components seem dated and it must smell fresh


Problem with new games is that, usually companies nowadays cannot afford proper testing, proof-reading and development -- most of games which are published today are only half-baked and players need to wait for a few months for an errata to show up, living rules to be published and updated counters to be inserted in a magazine for which you then pay money to get a fully fledged product you should have had received before.

Older games, while graphic-wise their content may look a bit outdated, are everything but that: thoroughly tested over all years, always equipped with variants & optional rules which enrich the gameplay, with a solid fan base who are always helpful and ready to answer questions. With all the respect, who knows where the USE will end in 20 years from today. Hitler's War is still being played and enjoyed -- USE? I really don't know.


Hitler's War would fail in today's market. The rules are a mess, and
it is quite ahistorical. Compared to the amount of development work
that went into USE, Hitler's War looks as though it was ripped out in
a couple of months (which might be the case given Metagaming). It's a
fun game, but it sure as hell is no poster-child for a balanced and
accurate look at WWII.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Łukasz
Poland
Warsaw
flag msg tools
Non vi sed virtute, not armis sed arte paritur victoria.
badge
e^{i · π} + 1 = 0
Avatar
mb
My intention was to make a general remark; USE and HW were used in this context just as examples -- nothing personal, really. In fact, I am being tempted, by buzz 'geek generates, to get my own copy of USE.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Enrico Viglino
United States
Eugene
OR
flag msg tools
Slowed - BGG's moderation policies have driven me partially from here
badge
http://thegamebox.byethost15.com/smf/
Avatar
mb
Nothing personal here either - I just perceived that there was
some sort of claim that those older games were released in a
better state than modern ones. Overall, I think that's false,
and in HW's case, I think very much so.

There is no assurances that today's buzz game will have the
same kind of staying power though, that much is true.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve Arthur
Australia
New South Wales
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb

For what it's worth I recently purchased 'The Supreme Commander' over 'Unconditional Surrender' after quite a bit of research and asking around..

2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Salvatore Vasta
United States
Woodstock
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Atraxrobustus wrote:

For what it's worth I recently purchased 'The Supreme Commander' over 'Unconditional Surrender' after quite a bit of research and asking around..


Oh no, there goes my son's college tuition fund. Have fun with SC. There are elements that do look interesting.

As for my 50 hour estimate of USE, it was a rough estimate. Despite all the years of development, I could never play it straight through without being interrupted by life (work and family) or design contemplation. And at conventions, we'd often have to stop to explain and demo the game system. Now that the game is being played by many more people, a more accurate playing time should reveal itself.

Sal
6 
 Thumb up
1.00
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.