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Subject: Lunar Cycle card FAQs rss

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Benjamin
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It would be really unfortunate for draft players to encounter rule interpretation problems during draft gameplay, since these cards haven't been released in datapacks yet. Hope this thread will help, by being a go-to reference for anyone participating in Cyber War drafting!



1. Enhanced Login Protocol is active. Runner plays Dirty Laundry, then makes a regular run. Does the regular run:
- require an additional click (since it's the first time this turn he runs without card effects - thanks mplain!), or
- cost the regular one click (since the first time he ran, he did it through a card effect)?



2. Does swapping with Midori count towards the 1 ICE install quota? (Assuming yes, since Midori reads "the new ICE is installed unrezzed".) In which case, would I be allowed to use the swap ability to retract an ICE back to my hand without installing a new one, if Unscheduled Maintenance is in play and I've already installed an ICE this turn?



3. Bribery: does this only apply for the outermost unrezzed ICE, or the first piece of ICE the Corp rezzes this run?

Quote:
When the Runner encounters (Lancelot), you may reveal up to 2 Grail ICE from HQ. For the remainder of this run, Lancelot gains the subroutines of the revealed ICE in the order of your choice.


4. Would encountering the same Grail ICE multiple times in a run (eg. Cell Portal) allow subroutines to stack? (Yes it does - thanks Alsciende!)



5a. Remote contains 3 cards, including a rezzed Hostile Infrastructure. Runner performs Singularity run.
- Take 1 net damage (since I'm trashing all 3 cards at one go, providing one trigger instance of Hostile Infrastructure), or
- Take 1 net damage (trash each one separately; choose to trash Hostile Infrastructure first - thanks HunterRose!), or
- Take 3 instances of 1 net damage. Hostile Infrastructure triggers thrice, once per card trashed. (Officially ruled by Lukas: thanks Captain_Frisk!)



5b. Most cards clearly refer to the player that performs trashing (Corp trashes: Data Leak Reversal, Hemorrhage etc.) (Runner trashes: Keyhole, Demolition run etc.) Parasite is arguably ambiguous - does it trigger Hostile Infrastructure?



Rulebook wrote:
Inactive: An inactive card’s abilities do not affect the game
and cannot be triggered.

Ice is active if rezzed and inactive if unrezzed.


mplain wrote:
Card types and subtypes are relevant in any game zone, but card abilities (i.e. text) are only relevant if the card is active (unless specifically stated otherwise).


6. Can Bioroid Efficiency Research be used on Mother Goddess with a rezzed Bioroid already in play? No. Similarly, it cannot be revealed as a Grail ICE from hand.
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Allan Clements
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The last one is definitely 3 seperate net damage (each card trashed triggers hostile infrastructure)

Not sure about midori.

 
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Salva Picot
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Kamakaze wrote:
The last one is definitely 3 seperate net damage (each card trashed triggers hostile infrastructure)

Not sure about midori.



The thing is:
the runner acces all the cards and trashes them in any order ( I think ). So if he trashes HI in first place he will take only 1 net damage
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mplain
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1. Cards that initiate runs have nothing to do with Enhanced Login Protocol, whatsoever. The first time the runner makes a regular run - that's when it counts.

2. I would suggest that swapping (as action, verb) is not the same as installing, but the result is the same (a card being installed, thus triggering HB: EtF). Otherwise the interaction with Tenma Line would be really weird. As is, this current prevents the corp from installing ice, not ice from being installed. MirrorMorph is still a bummer though.

3. The wording is ambiguous for sure, but I'd think that if they meant the outernmost unrezzed ice exclusively, they could've said so.

4. I say ban Cell Portal and Awakening Center, for raising rules questions is pretty much all they do. =_=

5. Now that's a good one. Let's remember the interaction between e3 Feedback Implants and bioroids 2.0. When you break 2 subroutines at the same time, Implants still trigger twice. Furthermore, three cards being trashed is not three simultaneous effects, it's all one effect, so the corp would have no say in the order of them going to archives. Seems to me it's 3 damage.
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Cedric Bertolini
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1: It costs one additional click, since it meets the condition on the Current
2: I don't know
3: Outermost unrezzed ICE, as in: "the first unrezzed ICE the Runner approaches"
4: yes, the subroutines stack
5: I don't know
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Andrew Keddie
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1: It'll cost an extra click as it's the first run that wasn't made from a card ability.

2: I would assume yes, as Midori states the card is installed.

EDIT: Didn't fully read your question. I would say that swapping includes installation, but you couldn't take an ICE without also replacing it (and if you can't install again this turn, you can't pick one up either).

3: Outermost unrezzed.

4: I can't see why it wouldn't - if you get Cell Portalled into Komainu (and still have cards from the first encounter because you broke the subroutines) then it'll add extra subroutines. This should work the same way.

5: You're not accessing the cards and choosing order of trash, you have a single effect of 'trash everything', so I would say three net damage.
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Salva Picot
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5.- Is true, I forgot Singularity's wording. 3 net damage ( sorry Benjamin)

3.- The first UNREZZED ice. So if you first encounter a rezzed Ice Wall ( from a former turn )and after that there's an unrezzed ICE that tha Corp wants to Rezz, the Corp must pay X

2.- I'm not really sure about how long you must apply the text of cards to resolve his effects. You must resolve as much effects as you can until you can't do anything more? ( In wich case you can retrieve the ICE without installing another one ) Or you must fullfill all the text to play the card? . That issue allways confused me in a lot of card games
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Captain Frisk
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Here's how I would rule - with my confidence rating on how correct my answer is:

bewnt wrote:
It would be really unfortunate for draft players to encounter rule interpretation problems during draft gameplay, since these cards haven't been released in datapacks yet. Off the top of my head, here are a few I have:


1. Enhanced Login Protocol is active. Runner plays Dirty Laundry, then makes a regular run. Does the regular run:
- require an additional click (since it's the first time this turn he runs without card effects - thanks mplain!), or
- cost the regular one click (since the first time he ran, he did it through a card effect)?


95%: It would require an additional click because its the first "normal" run.

bewnt wrote:
2. Does swapping with Midori count towards the 1 ICE install quota? (Assuming yes, since Midori reads "the new ICE is installed unrezzed".) In which case, would I be allowed to use the swap ability to retract an ICE back to my hand without installing a new one, if Unscheduled Maintenance is in play and I've already installed an ICE this turn?


95%: Yes - the install with midroi does count to the once per turn, because it explicitly states that the ice is installed. However - this would be during the runners turn, so in order for her install to be blocked - something else would have already had to fire (Midori on a prior run, or minelayer?)

25%: No - you would not be able to yank ice off the board with midori in a second usage - because we've already established that the ice is installed, and the wording on swap is as a single thing. If Midori read something like "Take an ice from the board into your HQ. Install an ice from HQ in the place that the former ice existed" I would allow it.


bewnt wrote:
3. Bribery: does this only apply for the outermost unrezzed ICE, or the first piece of ICE the Corp rezzes this run? (Guessing it's the former.. not a very good card then, probably worse than Running Interference!)


100%: The card explicitly states that its the first piece of ice approached - so its definitely the outermost ice (barring some goofy future card that lets you start a run at some other point than the outermost ice). It's better than running interference because it isn't a double. It's not as good as inside job in most cases, but when you know what the ice is - this could be useful. Think of it as a hybrid of Vamp and Inside job.

bewnt wrote:
When the Runner encounters (Lancelot), you may reveal up to 2 Grail ICE from HQ. For the remainder of this run, Lancelot gains the subroutines of the revealed ICE in the order of your choice.

4. Would encountering the same Grail ICE multiple times in a run (eg. Cell Portal) allow subroutines to stack? (Yes it does - thanks Alsciende!)


100% - absolutely. This is consistent with card ruling with cell portal that we've seen thus far.

bewnt wrote:
5. Remote contains 3 cards, including a rezzed Hostile Infrastructure. Runner performs Singularity run.
- Take 1 net damage (since I'm trashing all 3 cards at one go, providing one trigger instance of Hostile Infrastructure), or
- Take 1 net damage (trash each one separately; choose to trash Hostile Infrastructure first - thanks HunterRose!), or
- Take 3 instances of 1 net damage (1 per card trashed)?


100%: I have no idea! Normally runner chooses order of access - but that's clearly not happening here.
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Captain_Frisk wrote:
100%: The card explicitly states that its the first piece of ice approached - so its definitely the outermost ice (barring some goofy future card that lets you start a run at some other point than the outermost ice)

1st server: rezzed Ice Wall
2nd server: unrezzed ice, rezzed Ice Wall, unrezzed ice

Run 1st server, break Ice Wall, use Copycat, the innermost ice is now the first unrezzed approached.

Achievement Unlocked: Welcome To The Future!
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Andrew Keddie
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mplain wrote:
Captain_Frisk wrote:
100%: The card explicitly states that its the first piece of ice approached - so its definitely the outermost ice (barring some goofy future card that lets you start a run at some other point than the outermost ice)

1st server: rezzed Ice Wall
2nd server: unrezzed ice, rezzed Ice Wall, unrezzed ice

Run 1st server, break Ice Wall, use Copycat, the innermost ice is now the first unrezzed approached.

Achievement Unlocked: Welcome To The Future!


Yep, first UNREZZED ICE approached. If there's already rezzed ICE in the outermost position, then the ICE behind it becomes the target, unless you're doing weird shenanigans like mplain's example here.
 
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Damien M
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1-You would not pay an additional click because you made a run with a card effect. This would only add a [Click] to the runner's ability to [Click]:Make a run.

2-Pretty sure it does not count. You are swapping them, not installing. The "installed unrezzed" portion is just telling you in what state it is in (as opposed to installed rezzed)

3-The first unrezzed ICE approached would be the first unrezzed ICE you...uhh...approach. Not sure why there's any confusion here?

4-Yes.

5-It would be 3 net damage if you trash Hostile Infrastructure last. 1 net damage if you trash it first (it's no longer there to trigger it's ability). Runner chooses order since it is their effect on their turn. Sorry, didn't notice Singularity. It would (probably) be 3 net damage.
 
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Entice wrote:
5-It would be 3 net damage if you trash Hostile Infrastructure last. 1 net damage if you trash it first (it's no longer there to trigger it's ability). Runner chooses order since it is their effect on their turn.

Wrong.
 
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Captain Frisk
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mplain wrote:
Entice wrote:
5-It would be 3 net damage if you trash Hostile Infrastructure last. 1 net damage if you trash it first (it's no longer there to trigger it's ability). Runner chooses order since it is their effect on their turn.

Wrong.


I'm not sure that its definitely 3 damage. If you view the trashing as simultaneous, then i can totally see the argument that Hostile Infrastructure only does 1 damage because it's one "trash" event. If its going to fire once for each card - then the order *might* be important, but there are no explicit rules to indicate the order in which the cards are trashed. You could fall back on runners turn runner chooses the order.

Has someone already asked this on the ffg forum?
 
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The order of trashing, while accessing cards, is on the Rulebook. I'm with mplain, with singularity there's no access, instead all the cards are trashed. This is only one event, as its worded, and all the cards are trashed "same time".
If any ruling appears I will really glad to anyone that shares.
See you
 
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I will once again direct you to the ruling for Account Siphon + NACH. If these were two simultaneous yet separate effects, the runner could have chosen to gain money first, then gain tags and prevent them by paying with the money he just stole. This is not the case, however, as was directly ruled by Lukas.

Trashing multiple permanents with Singularity is the same. The runner cannot choose the order in which cards are trashed. And since Hostile Infrastructure triggers off itself, I don't see any reason for it not to trigger off cards being trashed it exactly the same moment as it is.
 
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Salva Picot
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Agree
 
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Richard Linnell
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Doesn't dirty laundry say "Make a run" on the card? That means you are initiating the run through a card effect, and don't need to pay the click tax.
 
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Evgeny Reznikov
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Captain_Frisk wrote:

bewnt wrote:
2. Does swapping with Midori count towards the 1 ICE install quota? (Assuming yes, since Midori reads "the new ICE is installed unrezzed".) In which case, would I be allowed to use the swap ability to retract an ICE back to my hand without installing a new one, if Unscheduled Maintenance is in play and I've already installed an ICE this turn?


95%: Yes - the install with midroi does count to the once per turn, because it explicitly states that the ice is installed. However - this would be during the runners turn, so in order for her install to be blocked - something else would have already had to fire (Midori on a prior run, or minelayer?)

25%: No - you would not be able to yank ice off the board with midori in a second usage - because we've already established that the ice is installed, and the wording on swap is as a single thing. If Midori read something like "Take an ice from the board into your HQ. Install an ice from HQ in the place that the former ice existed" I would allow it.



So, you're basically 120% confident the answer is either yes or no, right?
 
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Chris Wood
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No, he's 95% confident that you can't use Midori once per turn, but only 25% confident that you can 1/2 do Midori's ability. (pulling the ice off but not installing a second one)
 
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Captain Frisk
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Taloncarde wrote:
No, he's 95% confident that you can't use Midori once per turn, but only 25% confident that you can 1/2 do Midori's ability. (pulling the ice off but not installing a second one)


Exactly... its a 2 part question. The first one is easy. The second one.... who knows.
 
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Cedric Bertolini
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2. I'm still not sure. What is forbidden by Unscheduled Maintenance? Performing the action "[Click]: Install a piece of ice", or the effet "having a piece of ice installed". I'm thinking it's the action. Thus, Midori is fine.
 
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Robert S
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Alsciende wrote:
2. I'm still not sure. What is forbidden by Unscheduled Maintenance? Performing the action "[Click]: Install a piece of ice", or the effet "having a piece of ice installed". I'm thinking it's the action. Thus, Midori is fine.

2. I think on the corp turn it is pretty clear that you can only install one ice (even when using Interns or Shipment from Mirrormorph).
On the runner turn it is reasonably clear that install ice effect (Howler and Minelayer) can only be used once. Midori is not as clear because the "action" taken by the corp is swap an ice, even if the new ice ends up being installed.
Compare with the ruling that you can use Shipment from Kaguya/Sansan to put advancement tokens on cards that can be advanced even if you cannot advance cards (Efficient Committee). I.e the card ends up being(!) advanced while not performing a forbidden advance action is similar to an ice being(!) installed while not performing a forbidden install ice action.
 
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bewnt wrote:

Rulebook wrote:
Inactive: An inactive card’s abilities do not affect the game
and cannot be triggered.

Ice is active if rezzed and inactive if unrezzed.


6. Can Bioroid Efficiency Research be used on Mother Goddess with a rezzed Bioroid already in play? (Reading literally I'm leaning towards a no)

Card types and subtypes are relevant in any game zone, but card abilities (i.e. text) are only relevant if the card is active (unless specifically stated otherwise). So Ichi 1.0 is always a Bioroid ice, whether it's rezzed or unrezzed or in HQ. Similarly, Mother Godess is always a Mythic ice in all zones, but it only gets other subtypes if it's in play rezzed. If it's unrezzed it's not a Bioroid, and if it's in HQ it's not a Grail.
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Captain Frisk
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Captain_Frisk wrote:
mplain wrote:
Entice wrote:
5-It would be 3 net damage if you trash Hostile Infrastructure last. 1 net damage if you trash it first (it's no longer there to trigger it's ability). Runner chooses order since it is their effect on their turn.

Wrong.


I'm not sure that its definitely 3 damage. If you view the trashing as simultaneous, then i can totally see the argument that Hostile Infrastructure only does 1 damage because it's one "trash" event. If its going to fire once for each card - then the order *might* be important, but there are no explicit rules to indicate the order in which the cards are trashed. You could fall back on runners turn runner chooses the order.

Has someone already asked this on the ffg forum?


Quote:
3 Damage per lukas:

Thanks for the question. Hostile Infrastructure would resolve 3 times, once for each card, and the Runner would take 3 net damage. Hope that helps,



Quote:
Rule Question:
If a runner uses Singularity to trash multiple (lets say 3) cards in a remote server, one of which is a rezzed Hostile Infrastructure - how much damage is dealt?

Arguments seem to be:

3 - The runner trashed 3 cards, and because they are trashed at the same time, hostile infrastructure triggers on all 3.

1 - The runner is only performing one "trash" event because they all get trashed at the same time. Even though 3 cards are trashed, it was a single thing that trashed the cards so hostile infrastructure is only able to fire once.

Between 1 and 3 (inclusive) - The cards are trashed in some order and the runner (probably) chooses to trash the hostile infrastructure first (because it's the runners turn) and only take the one damage. Of course, for some unknown reason the runner could choose to do them in a different order to intentionally take more damage.

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Benjamin
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Captain_Frisk wrote:

Quote:
3 Damage per lukas:

Thanks for the question. Hostile Infrastructure would resolve 3 times, once for each card, and the Runner would take 3 net damage. Hope that helps,



Quote:
Rule Question:
If a runner uses Singularity to trash multiple (lets say 3) cards in a remote server, one of which is a rezzed Hostile Infrastructure - how much damage is dealt?

Arguments seem to be:

3 - The runner trashed 3 cards, and because they are trashed at the same time, hostile infrastructure triggers on all 3.

1 - The runner is only performing one "trash" event because they all get trashed at the same time. Even though 3 cards are trashed, it was a single thing that trashed the cards so hostile infrastructure is only able to fire once.

Between 1 and 3 (inclusive) - The cards are trashed in some order and the runner (probably) chooses to trash the hostile infrastructure first (because it's the runners turn) and only take the one damage. Of course, for some unknown reason the runner could choose to do them in a different order to intentionally take more damage.

Thanks for submitting the rules question!

There's another question for Hostile Infrastructure: is it triggered by Parasite?
 
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